Letter to the President

[somejaykid]

^^^don't forget about the doctor fee's too someone needs to read those x-ray and they ain't cheap

 

[JohnS.]

Ready for the bottom line Jolly?

Go look at yourself in a mirror and ask yourself this "what am i going to do about it?"

It's very normal to envy other's assets that you and i might not have. its absolutely normal. it's in human nature.

"what am i going to do about it"

Not to sound like a d**k, but it's not hard to say that to someone either. Just because someone has an opinion, doesn't mean they should change that something. I'm sure you are just like the rest of us. You b***h about something when you could do something about it too. We all do it. It's just easier to blame it on someone else.

Things are the way they are because it's just the way it is. Should doctors make hundreds of thousands of dollars? In my opinion? No. Should they be paid well though? Yes. Do some doctors care more about the money than their work? Yes. Do some doctors care more about their work than the money? Yes. My good friend just graduated as a Physicians Assistant. She absolutely loves everything she's done so far with her residency. She ultimately wants to work in the ICU and do surgery. Never have I heard her bring up money.

I brought up this conversation on a local forum was given this video. Gave me a new perspective on things. It's 20 minutes long but definitely worth the watch.
[YOUTUBE="Mike Rowe's Speech"]r-udsIV4Hmc[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Hecz]

Not to sound like a d**k, but it's not hard to say that to someone either. Just because someone has an opinion, doesn't mean they should change that something. I'm sure you are just like the rest of us. You b***h about something when you could do something about it too. We all do it. It's just easier to blame it on someone else.

Yes, of course i b***h about things. actions have reactions. bad decision making in my part would be the reason of my downfall if it ever comes. asking to myself "what am i going to do about it" over and over and over, will make me realize not only what needs to be done, but how the situation even got to that point to begin with. I know the problem(s) clearly, next step is to find the solution.

The funny thing about opinions is that many people tend to make them seem as facts. there's some kind of people in this world that can be feed tons and tons of evidence that proves their opinions wrong, but those certain individuals have it etched in their mind that their opinion is a fact, and that's all they will end up believing. not all people, some people. i am not saying anyone here is that type of person.

Things are the way they are because it's just the way it is. Should doctors make hundreds of thousands of dollars? In my opinion? No. Should they be paid well though? Yes. Do some doctors care more about the money than their work? Yes. Do some doctors care more about their work than the money? Yes. My good friend just graduated as a Physicians Assistant. She absolutely loves everything she's done so far with her residency. She ultimately wants to work in the ICU and do surgery. Never have I heard her bring up money.

John, I'm glad for your friend. I wish her the best. Now, should doctors be paid what they get paid? Personally, i don't know. i would need to do research as to how or what governs what they should earn.

That's a good speech.

 

[vjf915]

I think that EVERYBODY should be entitled to their opinion, and NOT be put down for how they feel. I agree partially with a couple points that BOTH sides have made. I agree with Jason, however, its not just DOCTORS who get overpaid for what they do. There are MANY people who make wayyyyyyy to much money for what they do, and do less work than someone who supports 4 kids on $30k a year. Its the nature of the beast that we all know as "Capitalism." You cant beat it or get around it.

 

[Hecz]

I think that EVERYBODY should be entitled to their opinion,

of course.

-----------------------

Jolly,

I have nothing againts you by the way man. the intentions of my opinions were not to cause harm to anyone.

 

[oc_civic]

doctors making "too much" is a social problem stemming from the destruction of middle class MORE than a greed issue.. they have been conditioned to expect that.. they have been conditioned to feel entitled.. lets face it.. the amount that they make is ONLY relevant when compared to OTHER professions.. if a doctor makes 900 trillion a year that alone is not relevant because there is nothing to compare it to... basically our nation was pretty good money wise for some time.. things were good.. basic houses were starting at a quarter million in average neighborhoods.. union teachers making $100k a year for working only 9 months a year.. credit was abundant and we as a nation were on a spending spree.. in fact money was SO good that we hired cheap labor from other countries to do the work that was beneath us, spreading the money around to all... so money was floating around and everyone was living the life... this all went on for some time till all of the sudden reality hit us.. and MOST people started cutting back.. losing their jobs.. and s**t got bad.. unfortunately our nation lacks balance, because as most of us normal people were getting laid off and losing income.. cutting costs.. etc.. some industries were not really effected, so it created this giant gap between lower income people and the rich.. also the amount that they make does in part stem from the insane investment they make in schooling (both financial AND time).. think about how much schooling costs, it is not JUST the amount of time they are there it is also the actual cost that the universities are taking in..

should a doctor make more than a plumber? yes sure.. but without running water you lose sanitation.. without sanitation good luck on that heart surgery you plan to get.. so while a doctor SHOULD make more than a plumber.. he should probably not make 10 times as much.. and that is really the core of the problem.. a lack of reasonable balance.. the pay scales of individuals should be more relative to one another.. unfortunately this is NOT something you can legislate, and further it is likely something that would only be fixed by complete economic collapse..

 

[techavluis]

millons of people talk about this. both sides have good points. but i think when its all said and done. dr should make alittle less and other things had be alittle less cuz its not just dr.

 

[got traction]

I think that EVERYBODY should be entitled to their opinion, and NOT be put down for how they feel. I agree partially with a couple points that BOTH sides have made. I agree with Jason, however, its not just DOCTORS who get overpaid for what they do. There are MANY people who make wayyyyyyy to much money for what they do, and do less work than someone who supports 4 kids on $30k a year. Its the nature of the beast that we all know as "Capitalism." You cant beat it or get around it.

who are you to decide on what people should make?

Like i said before...healthcare is affordable. But people choose to spend their money on things like new cell phones, 3d tv's, rims, cars, etc.

 

[oc_civic]

who are you to decide on what people should make?

Like i said before...healthcare is affordable. But people choose to spend their money on things like new cell phones, 3d tv's, rims, cars, etc.

with all due respect.. health care for a small family would be pretty tight, right now it is just me and my g/f and we make enough to get by and do the things we want to do, and sure if we eliminated the stuff in our lives that are non-essential we could likely buy our own health insurance.. but the reality is the medical industry IS gouging the s**t out of the American public.. YES we have great medicine.. YES we have great hospitals.. and so on.. but the level of cost for even basic care at a hospital is pretty out of control... and without any "help" medical insurance for a family living on a modest income IS pretty tight... I get your point but its not like everyone is living like that..

 

[vjf915]

who are you to decide on what people should make?

Show me how I said that I should get to decide what people make? All I stated was that there are people who get paid quite a bit for what they do and what they provide to society. There were many others who made comments much closer to what you are describing, so Im pretty confused as to why you are coming at me like that.

 

[joe7987]

should a doctor make more than a plumber? yes sure.. but without running water you lose sanitation.. without sanitation good luck on that heart surgery you plan to get.. so while a doctor SHOULD make more than a plumber.. he should probably not make 10 times as much.. and that is really the core of the problem.. a lack of reasonable balance..

By saying this, you are demonstrating that you don't understand why some people are payed higher than others.

It has little to do with "who needs who." Most jobs are necessary for the continuing survival of life as we know it. That is beside the point. The fact is this:

How long do you think it'd take you to do a plumber's job, how much is schooling, and what materials are needed to learn? Let's be honest.. you could probably learn how to make house calls in a week.

How long do you think it'd take you to learn how to perform all of the jobs a Dr. does? How much is his schooling? What is the cost of the materials needed to learn (assuming we don't practice on life humans!)?

It's not about whose job is more important.. it's about the road that you need to take to get there.

Do you think a plumber spent 8 years pulling all nighters on a regular basis? Do you think the plumber spent $65,000 a year for school? Did he endure the stress of 8 years of memorization and constant self-knowledge forcing? What are his risks of killing people on a day to day basis? Speaking of which, how often does he have to deal with morbidity? Not to mention the other day to day stresses that a doctor endures over a plumber.

Does a Dr. need to be making $750,000 a year? Sure, if he has more to offer than most other people on this planet, he absolutely does.

By the way, 8 years is an approximate minimum in the medical field. A neurosurgeon, for example, goes to school for approximately 11 - 16 years including residency. Most Drs don't make $750,000 a year. A neurosurgeon might be one of those cases where they do. A GOOD neurosurgeon who owns his own practice. Otherwise, you're looking at more like $350,000-450,000.

Do you still think these higher paying jobs are unfairly payed? For the record, I'm not lined up for any sort of job like this that would pay several hundred thousand. I'm looking at approximately $70,000 when I graduate.. which will put me firmly in the middle class. I'm not defending these high paying jobs because I have any affiliation with them. I'm defending them because it's very obvious to me why they make what they make.

 

[oc_civic]

By saying this, you are demonstrating that you don't understand why some people are payed higher than others.

It has little to do with "who needs who." Most jobs are necessary for the continuing survival of life as we know it. That is beside the point. The fact is this:

How long do you think it'd take you to do a plumber's job, how much is schooling, and what materials are needed to learn? Let's be honest.. you could probably learn how to make house calls in a week.

How long do you think it'd take you to learn how to perform all of the jobs a Dr. does? How much is his schooling? What is the cost of the materials needed to learn (assuming we don't practice on life humans!)?

It's not about whose job is more important.. it's about the road that you need to take to get there.

Do you think a plumber spent 8 years pulling all nighters on a regular basis? Do you think the plumber spent $65,000 a year for school? Did he endure the stress of 8 years of memorization and constant self-knowledge forcing? What are his risks of killing people on a day to day basis? Speaking of which, how often does he have to deal with morbidity? Not to mention the other day to day stresses that a doctor endures over a plumber.

Does a Dr. need to be making $750,000 a year? Sure, if he has more to offer than most other people on this planet, he absolutely does.

By the way, 8 years is an approximate minimum in the medical field. A neurosurgeon, for example, goes to school for approximately 11 - 16 years including residency. Most Drs don't make $750,000 a year. A neurosurgeon might be one of those cases where they do. A GOOD neurosurgeon who owns his own practice. Otherwise, you're looking at more like $350,000-450,000.

Do you still think these higher paying jobs are unfairly payed? For the record, I'm not lined up for any sort of job like this that would pay several hundred thousand. I'm looking at approximately $70,000 when I graduate.. which will put me firmly in the middle class. I'm not defending these high paying jobs because I have any affiliation with them. I'm defending them because it's very obvious to me why they make what they make.

yes I still think that doctors make too much money..
the reason I think that is simple.. normal tax paying working class individuals who have small families living modest lives have a hard time affording health care.. but as I already explained the problem extends past health care.. look at the legal system for example.. granted non of this is really the concern of the government... but you are not valuing normal average working class individuals enough.. without one sprocket.. without one gear.. the machine may still run.. but have you ever seen an inner city community when the sanitation workers go on strike? in a very short period of time garbage piles up.. rodents become rampant.. you simply can not have a working society without EVERY aspect of it..

 

[papichulo26]

Damn right they take our money to give it to people who dont deserve s**t... I say f**k em

 

[vjf915]

Damn right they take our money to give it to people who dont deserve s**t... I say f**k em

Yea, next time you break your arm...... "f**k em".

By saying this, you are demonstrating that you don't understand why some people are payed higher than others.

It has little to do with "who needs who." Most jobs are necessary for the continuing survival of life as we know it. That is beside the point. The fact is this:

How long do you think it'd take you to do a plumber's job, how much is schooling, and what materials are needed to learn? Let's be honest.. you could probably learn how to make house calls in a week.

How long do you think it'd take you to learn how to perform all of the jobs a Dr. does? How much is his schooling? What is the cost of the materials needed to learn (assuming we don't practice on life humans!)?

It's not about whose job is more important.. it's about the road that you need to take to get there.

Do you think a plumber spent 8 years pulling all nighters on a regular basis? Do you think the plumber spent $65,000 a year for school? Did he endure the stress of 8 years of memorization and constant self-knowledge forcing? What are his risks of killing people on a day to day basis? Speaking of which, how often does he have to deal with morbidity? Not to mention the other day to day stresses that a doctor endures over a plumber.

Does a Dr. need to be making $750,000 a year? Sure, if he has more to offer than most other people on this planet, he absolutely does.

By the way, 8 years is an approximate minimum in the medical field. A neurosurgeon, for example, goes to school for approximately 11 - 16 years including residency. Most Drs don't make $750,000 a year. A neurosurgeon might be one of those cases where they do. A GOOD neurosurgeon who owns his own practice. Otherwise, you're looking at more like $350,000-450,000.

Do you still think these higher paying jobs are unfairly payed? For the record, I'm not lined up for any sort of job like this that would pay several hundred thousand. I'm looking at approximately $70,000 when I graduate.. which will put me firmly in the middle class. I'm not defending these high paying jobs because I have any affiliation with them. I'm defending them because it's very obvious to me why they make what they make.

VERY well said Joe.

 

[oc_civic]

police help maintain order...
police confront violent attackers...
police literally lay their lives on the lines protecting you and me...

how much is that worth? who deserves more? a plastic surgeon cutting up some stupid girls face, or a police officer braking down the door of a child molester bringing him to justice..putting his LIFE on the line..

It is easy to say that doctors earn their pay... and they do.. but the medical industry is FAR too big of a machine..
one day our society will crumble.. every society does... and at that moment should you live to see it.. you will realize just how important the working class is.. you will see with your own eyes just how important something as simple as trash disposal, carpentry, mechanical trades, plumbing, etc are...

again am I saying that a doctor should make the same a trash man? NO.. but the health care industry IS grossly inflated..

 

[Mr. Jollypants]

ummm... maybe they earned it? or maybe those things just magically fell into their hands from the sky? pick one!

To be honest, they didn't earn s**t. They THINK they need to earn 750,000.

boo f**king hoo huh?? lol

please multiply 8 x whatever a doctor's Universities tuition cost.

Average Medical School Loan Debt - Under 100,000. That's 400 dollars a month, for 20 years. Yeah, really high tuition

ok? who's f**king fault is that? . get a better paying job or get that damn second job, or a third job, or fourth job, or fifth job. Do something about. don't b***h about it. DO something about it.

Oh yeah, their fault they can't get a second job, man if only those people could just snap their fingers and make the economy turn around

oh, shortage of jobs right? boo f**king hoo, keep looking.. there's jobs, stop making excuses!

There are jobs, but not enough. These companies can hold off for weeks, even months looking for cream-of-the-crop employees.

oh, so you found a job, but its not the job of your dream right or it doesn't pay you what you want it to pay you.

People have a job that pay the bills and they get by, but they cannot afford to have 100+ dollars (More if you insure the whole family, probably around 400-500) taken out every month.

Ready for the bottom line Jolly?

I already know the bottom-line.

Go look at yourself in a mirror and ask yourself this "what am i going to do about it?"

I already know what I'm going to do about it. I have health insurance.

It's very normal to envy other's assets that you and i might not have. its absolutely normal. it's in human nature.

I don't envy them. Want to know why I don't envy them? I don't want the s**t handed to me. Period.

who are you to decide on what people should make?

It's called common sense. You have politicians who during the recession have upped their pay, upped their spending so they can get more money, bought jets, ect. This is where I feel I have the right to tell someone how much they should make. You have CEOs of companies who make millions of dollars a year, doing what? Really. Tell me what they CEOs do besides spending money and going to meetings? You have accountants who are at work 10+ hours a day, save a company millions of dollars, they get a pat on the back, and maybe a raise. A CEO saves a company a few million, he ups his pay by a million. The society we live in needs a wake up call.

Like i said before...healthcare is affordable. But people choose to spend their money on things like new cell phones, 3d tv's, rims, cars, etc.

Healthcare is affordable? Keep telling yourself that. Could I do without having 100 dollars taken out of my pay every month? Of course I could, I just don't want to have a visit to hospital and then be tens of thousands of dollars in debt.

My opinion? Base our healthcare on Japans healthcare system. This is why: So while in the U.S. a MRI scan of the neck region costs about $US 1,500; in Japan, the identical scan costs $US 98. (Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR2009082101778_pf.html)

More: In France and Japan, you don't get a choice of insurance provider; you have to use the one designated for your company or your industry. But patients can go to any doctor, any hospital, any traditional healer. There are no U.S.-style limits such as "in-network" lists of doctors or "pre-authorization" for surgery. You pick any doctor, you get treatment -- and insurance has to pay.

I REALLY suggest some members read this article, it'll put our healthcare system in contrast to others around the world. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR2009082101778_pf.html

 

[oc_civic]

I think the bigger point is this.. do hospitals deserve to charge what they charge? do doctors deserve to charge what they charge? do health insurance companies have that right?

NONE OF IT MATTERS... because if we keep at this pace (in general) NO ONE will be able to afford the food in the refrigerator let alone a few hundred bucks a month for medical insurance..

 

[Raabe]

 

[Mr. Jollypants]

I think the bigger point is this.. do hospitals deserve to charge what they charge? do doctors deserve to charge what they charge? do health insurance companies have that right?

NONE OF IT MATTERS... because if we keep at this pace (in general) NO ONE will be able to afford the food in the refrigerator let alone a few hundred bucks a month for medical insurance..

Read the Article, it really puts a lot of perspective on our healthcare situation.

 

[oc_civic]

Read the Article, it really puts a lot of perspective on our healthcare situation.

I think that I already agree with most of what you are saying anyway....