1988 Civic D.O.A....

kontreeboy

New Member
Hi. New user.
I have a 1988 Honda Civic. Fuel Injected. Manual trans. SOHC. NO bells and whistles. Not even a cigerette lighter! About 160k miles. My daughter was driving it the other day when I got a call from her: Stuck on the side of the road. The engine just quit on her. When I arrived, we turned the engine over and it sounds like a POPPING sound thru the exhaust. (Note: The muffler is gone due to rust.) But the popping sound did not sound exactly like a BACKFIRE sound that I would normally associate with an 'out-of-time' engine. However this is the direction that I persued. Removed the valve cover and aligned the cam 'up' marks, and crank, but when I removed the dist. cap, the rotor is IN-BETWEEN the #2 and the #1 'terminal pins'. I would expect the rotor to be sitting dead-on the #1 terminal, but I am not familiar enough with mechanics of this car to know if that is important or not.
I went ahead and put everything back together and then pulled and checked the #1 plug to see that I was getting spark. YES. I also took this oportunity to spray some starting fluid into the #1 cylinder head, reinstall the plug to see if it would 'fire' at least once; but NO. Just the popping sound, which MIGHT possibly be a 'firing' sound... but if it is... it is an extremely LATE one! ??? Any ideas on where to proceed? Oh- one more thing. I pulled the carpet up on the pass. side to see if the little glass inspection window would show me some codes, but it would not blink at all- except once each time the IGN key was turned to ACCY and back off. Thanks for your ideas...
 

RonJ

Banned
Sounds like the timing belt skipped a tooth or two. It may help to remove the spark plugs when doing the following procedure. Turn the crank pulley ONLY COUNTERCLOCKWISE until the cam gear is perfectly positioned at TDC1 (see diagram below). Then look down at the crank pulley white TDC1 mark (not group of three marks). It should be perfectly aligned with the pointer on the lower timing belt cover.

 


kontreeboy

New Member
Thanks RonJ,
Let me ask you this however. I initially thought that perhaps the timing belt had broken, but once I had the valve cover removed saw, (with some delight) that that was not the case. My next thought was perhaps it had skipped a tooth or two. BUT, Can the Crank and the Cam both line up on their marks AND the #1 Valve springs be 'relaxed' if that's the case? It's as if everything EXCEPT the rotor is in the right place. AND let me add, the marks on the Crank pully are HORRIBLE! I dont have ANY of the markings that is talked about in the manual. There is only a VERY slight mark that goes across both sides of the pulley and NO WHITE markings at all. I turned the crank around several times looking for a good mark- AND cleaned it with brake cleaner fluid, but only found a POOR mark at best... and that one actually lined up on pointer at the same time the Cam was in its marks as well. What do you think?
 

RonJ

Banned
Remove spark plug #1 and insert a long dowel or rod down into the cylinder until it sits on top of the piston. Now turn the crank pulley counterclockwise until the piston exactly reaches its highest point (TDC1). At this point, is the cam pulley also positioned perfectly at the TDC1? Does the rotor point to plug wire #1?
 


kontreeboy

New Member
1988 Honda Civic D.O.A.

RonJ,
Sorry, am JUST NOW getting to your tests. I inserted a long steel rod down into the #1 Cylinder and rotated it till it was at it highest stroke. Checked the marks on the Cam and they were way off. So I turned it thru another cycle and brought it to its highest point WITH THE CAM MARKS correct, and the rotor button is perfectly positioned between terminal #2 and #1 on the dist. cap. I cant be positive, but the only thing on the crank that LOOKS like a mark is in it's correct place also. So. How can the Dist. Rotor be out of position if this is the case? Also, what's the next move? Thanks. AP
 

RonJ

Banned
After you position the crank perfectly at TDC1 using the rod method, post very clear pictures of the cam position and where the rotor is positioned.
 

kontreeboy

New Member
1988 Honda Civic D.O.A.

Have taken photos, but cant locate where to post them! (Have spent OVER 30 minutes trying to locate instructions on webpage for posting an image!) I see that RonJ has put an image inline with his post, but I've tried, drag and drop, copy and paste and other methods but all I can find is a button that wants a URL to my images. Do I have to manually type in my path to the image on my harddrive??? Any ideas? Thanks.
 

RonJ

Banned
Upload your pictures to Photobucket. Then paste the IMG code for each picture into your post.
 

RonJ

Banned
If you post the IMG codes, the pictures will display in the post.

Due to the angle of your picture, it's difficult to say whether the cam gear is positioned exactly at TDC1. If you look at the rear of the cam gear, are the horizontal lines aligned perfectly with top surface of the head?

And where would plug wire 1 be located in your distributor pictures? Can you make a mark?
 

kontreeboy

New Member
1988 Honda Civic D.O.A.

Here's new photo of Distributor:

(thanks for photo advice!)
The Cam is hard to get to in order to shoot dead-on, but the marks ARE aligned with the top of block.
I've marked the Dist. photo to help show the positions of the terminals, along with the rotation.
Also note, the #1 pistion is at TDC as located using a metal rod.
 

RonJ

Banned
Have you removed the rotor to see whether it is damaged and has slipped out of position on the shaft?
 

kontreeboy

New Member
No. I have not touched the rotor or anything else electrical (Other than check for a spark on plug #1). This rotor and distributor is so different from what I am used to (older US made autos), that I decided to seek help BEFORE I messed something up by accident. I will have to study on that operation a little before I can pull it and see what's there. Please be patient as the only time I get to work on this thing is on the weekends, unless by miracle I get home early during the week. But I will post something as soon as I get new material! Thanks!
 

RonJ

Banned
Remove the hood ECU fuse and then flick the ignition switch to ON(III) until the rotor screw becomes visible and accessible for removal. That's all it takes.

 

kontreeboy

New Member
Wow! and Wow!
Guess what I found while in looking at that thing!!!
NO SCREW! and NO SCREW HOLE! Meaning, the Rotor appears to have turned on the shaft!!! Meaning instant NO-Run-ability! Check this out:

The Rotor is on there GOOD though! Try prying off?
What do you think?
 

RonJ

Banned
It's difficult to see, but is the rotor also melted or broken where it connects with the shaft? If so, start by removing the entire distributor from the head so that you can then work off the rotor without damaging the distributor shaft.
 

kontreeboy

New Member
O.k. This may take a while. Got to deliver kids to karate and boy scouts this week after work. Will try to squeeze the Distrubutor in there- in-between. Will get back to you and let you know how it goes. Thanks!

P.s. Also. Am wondering about putting the Valve Cover back on. When I tried that just recently, iit didnt appear to go down all the way, and with only those 4 tiny acorn nuts to pull it down... am wondering if there's a secret dealing with that issue?
 

RonJ

Banned
Make sure the spark plug tubes align with the holes in the valve cover and then gently slide them through.
 

kontreeboy

New Member
RonJ, All I can say is: YOU DA MAN!
I just completed replacing the Rotor on the Distrib. and put everything back together and it fired right up. Is not running SUPER smoothly, however I would say it is definately road-worthy. I just wanted to send you a shot of my valve cover though. And after I re-read what you said about "...gently slide them through..." kinda worries me. Notice what appears to be a gap between the valve cover and block. I dont remember that being so wide when I removed it, but as I was putting it back on, I tried to wiggle and 'encourage' the thing to go on as gently as I could, but did not see ANY opportunity for the spark plug tubes to actually SLIDE up into the V Cover. It's kinda like it's just sitting on them. Could I possibly have bent them previously? Not sure what to do here. Am sending two photos of these areas to see what you think.
Thanks!

 

RonJ

Banned
You can just replace the valve cover seals.

Regarding the fact that the engine is not running super smoothly, inspect the spark plugs (post pictures), test the coil (see diagram), and then check/adjust the ignition timing. It's quite possible that the bad rotor damaged the coil and fouled the spark plugs. Once the engine is firing smoothly, set the ignition timing to spec.



 
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