boosting TYPE-R???

[eg8b18]

Is boosting a B18C5 Type -R a good idea?
I dont plan to lower the compression for now . just 4-5 psi with stock internals ( is it safe????)
would Greddy e-manage work on p73 ecm . i already have a GT2840 turbo , thats a good turbo right?
later i will do the internals and run 12-14 psi with S300 .
Some help form u guys plz ! ! !

 

[Billy.]

uhh i would say no. its already high compression, id say boosting on stock internals would be engine suicide

 

[Scorchsta]

If you can get really high octane gas and a good tune you should be fine. If you can't get a professional tune then don't even attempt it.

 

[Shea]

i wouldn't do it cuz the b18c5 has awesome potential as a NA motor

 

[House Special]

just say no

 

[Billy.]

just say no

lol its boost, not crack

 

[Scorchsta]

boost IS crack.

 

[Billy.]

i thought vtec was crack, boost was lsd

 

[Rand0m]

go for it.....typeR or not, just gotta make sure you do it right, get it tuned propperly......

a little reading info, having to do with the whole boost/high compression debate.....

ok, im bored and want to flex my brain, and this is a topic that many people do not agree on, some say that you cannot run turbo cars on a high compression motor, some say you can and it actually will run better, well heres my facts on the matter, lets say you have a stock b18c1 with 10:1 compression, now, atmospheric pressure is 14.7psi at sea level, so where gonna use that, so when your motor intakes a stroke of air and fuel an comresses it it has turned that 14.7 and multiplyed it by 10, to 147psi.
- so that was an easy one, now, lets say you stick a turbo on that motor and run 8psi of boost, now at peak boost you will have the 14.7 plus the 8psi of boost, making 22.7 psi going into your motor on the intake stroke, now compress that by 10 and u have 227psi
- ok, so now we change pistons and lower the compression to 9:1 we run the same boost of 8psi so we have the 22.7psi going in but only comressing it by 9 wich gives us 204.3psi, wich is less than with stock comression, wich means we will make less power, this is where the common missconception comes in that you can run more boost with a lower compression motor, well it is true, but your making more boost to compensate for the lack of compression that your motor has. you see, to get the same power out of the lower compression motor you would have to run 10.5psi(10.522 to be exact) of boost, add the 14.7 wich makes 25.22 and multiply that by 9 giving us the 227 wich is the same amount of compression at TDC as the stock compression motor.
- now, running 10.5psi of boost to get the same power is going to have drawbacks you will not spool up as quickly becuase you have to spool to 10.5 psi rather than 8 wich isnt much but were talking 10th and hundreths of seconds in racing.
- it comes down to tuning, properly tuning a higher compression motor will actually run better than a lower compression motor, you have more power in off-boost situations and with the higher compression your turbo will actually spool up quicker because of the force the exhaust is being released, now you may think that it would be more work tuning the higher compression motor, but in reality if your looking for the same amount of horsepower your going to have to increase the boost in the lower compression motor to make up for it, and in doing so the compression levels and detonation possiblity will be equal in both motors, so tuning is everything.

 

[Phantom Civic]

i thought vtec was crack, boost was lsd

No, boost is crack and with boost you need a lsd...

With a good tune you should be good for 300whp DD.

 

[Scorchsta]

go for it.....typeR or not, just gotta make sure you do it right, get it tuned propperly......

a little reading info, having to do with the whole boost/high compression debate.....

I knew that was around here somewhere.

 

[Billy.]

that whole big quote is pretty much right on the money. it basically concludes that it is pointless to run boost on a previously NA motor that you lowered the compression on. by boosting youre basically making up for the compression that you lost with shorter stroke internals. using the numbers from that quote i calculated that boosting a 10:1 motor just 3 psi would add 30+psi of pressure in the cylinder which adds significant stress on the stock sleeves. IMHO i would not boost a stock high comp motor, maybe a high comp bullet proof block with thick sleeves not more than 7 or 8 psi. any more than that and you'll be out of range for pump gas octanes

 

[Beelzebubba]

Do you already have a B18C5?

Trade it for 2 B16s and then you can make your mistakes and blow up the first one and have another for backup.

'Cause you are going to kick yourself when your map runs lean at partial throttle and you scorch your 4-5000 dollar motor.

 

[bcivichb]

that was a good find Rand0m. really informative

 

[mike@synapse]

if the car is professionally tuned with a proper ems it should have no problem at all with low boost. 275-300whp should be fine on that motor. its been done time and time again.

btw hondata s100 is cheaper than the emanage and can tune more accurately.

the quote above is partially accurate there is a lot more information and variable that play a role in those equations.

basically he says that compensating for lower compression by increasing boost results in the same power but will just yield more lag as just having the high compression motor anyway. this isn't exactly the case. the motor doesn't have to work as hard to make the power since the air is already compressed. also higher compression motors generate more heat in the cylinders, where as with the lower compression motor with properly intercooled air will have a lot less heat to worry about even with the increase in boost. the low c/r will generate less heat during the compression stroke than a high compression motor. this is where the tolerances in the tuning come in. detonation is more likely in a higher compression motor making the same amount of power due to the amount of heat generated during the compression stroke. as long as its tuned properly though an itr should have no problem making 275-300whp safely.

 

[Billy.]

basically he says that compensating for lower compression by increasing boost results in the same power but will just yield more lag as just having the high compression motor anyway. this isn't exactly the case. the motor doesn't have to work as hard to make the power since the air is already compressed. also higher compression motors generate more heat in the cylinders, where as with the lower compression motor with properly intercooled air will have a lot less heat to worry about even with the increase in boost. the low c/r will generate less heat during the compression stroke than a high compression motor. this is where the tolerances in the tuning come in. detonation is more likely in a higher compression motor making the same amount of power due to the amount of heat generated during the compression stroke. as long as its tuned properly though an itr should have no problem making 275-300whp safely.

for the sake of growing my brain im going to disagree somewhat. wouldnt an engine making 300hp NA have the exact same compression as an engine making 300hp boosted? on full boost they would have the same compression (maybe not the compression ratio, but the same psi at TDC) and thus the same heat generated. a low compression motor with boost would make the same heat as a high compression NA motor IF they make the same hp. either this is true or i am missing something


*EDIT*
and on that note, a high compression motor would have more power distributed across the power band than a boosted motor making the same peak horsepower b/c of turbo lag


*DOUBLE EDIT*
this is the hardest ive concentrated since trying to read Jane Eyre in middle school...

 

[RedLine42]

I would say no on a type r. What about a sick ass NA build?

 

[mike@synapse]

imagine doing half the compression first, then cooling the air then doing the second half.

now imagine doing all the compression at once.

an exaggeration but the same theory.

 

[ST8JDM]

I would say no on a type r. What about a sick ass NA build?

thats what am trying to tell my fren but hes crazy about boosting the c5 hope fully he wont kill that fine motor

 

[GoDave!]

Is boosting a B18C5 Type -R a good idea?
I dont plan to lower the compression for now . just 4-5 psi with stock internals ( is it safe????)
would Greddy e-manage work on p73 ecm . i already have a GT2840 turbo , thats a good turbo right?
later i will do the internals and run 12-14 psi with S300 .
Some help form u guys plz ! ! !

E-manage FTL!!!


...go Hondata straight off.... or Haltech!