Can't shift out of neutral with car stopped.

Stock Car

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98 Civic DX Hatchback

I have a S40 transmission on a D16Y7.

Installed new tranny (actually used with 100k on it, but in great shape) , poly shift linkage bushings and clutch kit 30k / 3 years ago. Was buttery smooth then and still good now except:

In the last month I have started having trouble shifting to first when stopped at a light. I solved this by going to 2nd first and then back to 1st gear to get going. Now I am having trouble getting in to 2nd when stopped and even 3rd gear when stopped.

The shifting is smooth when:
- The car is off/parked.
- I rev the engine up a bit while stopped and shift from neutral to first while keeping rams a bit higher than idle.
- I start the car then put it in first before letting off the clutch pedal. If I let off the clutch after starting then go for first it won't go.

Obs:
Clutch does not pump up
No external leak from slave or master cylinder
Master holds pressure
Clutch fork moves about 3/8 inch (1cm)
Tranny fluid is full w/ Honda MTF
Clutch fork feels solid when wiggled by hand
Clutch fluid remains clear several days after flush
Significant oil leak somewhere between block and alternator

Recent Work:
New Slave Cylinder fully bled with fresh DOT3/4

Cheers!
 

HeX

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It sounds like your synchros might be bad.
 


MotorMo

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A worn clutch can cause the clutch disc not to fully disengage- this would give you the symptom of having issues putting it in any gear at a stop light, yet with the engine not running there is no load on the clutch disc, thus allowing a smooth shift in/out of any gear. At my shop, at time clutches get so bad before customers replace them, its necessary to turn off the car, put in first gear, then start the engine and drive it in. Could also be a different issue with the clutch, like as if a spring is coming loose and wedging it self in places it shouldn't. If you have a used clutch in there that came with it all, I would start with a new clutch kit, and resurfacing the flywheel. Dont forget to use Honda MTF (Manual Transmission Fluid ) only so you dont wear down the internals.

PS, While the car is moving, the transmission gears and internals are already spinning= easier to shift- there is a technique called "RPM matching" where you dont need to disengage the clutch when you shift, just simply match the RPM's of the nest gear you want and it'll slip in. Altho not recommend haha.
 


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Stock Car

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MotorMo said:
A worn clutch can cause the clutch disc not to fully disengage- this would give you the symptom of having issues putting it in any gear at a stop light, yet with the engine not running there is no load on the clutch disc, thus allowing a smooth shift in/out of any gear. At my shop, at time clutches get so bad before customers replace them, its necessary to turn off the car, put in first gear, then start the engine and drive it in. Could also be a different issue with the clutch, like as if a spring is coming loose and wedging it self in places it shouldn't. If you have a used clutch in there that came with it all, I would start with a new clutch kit, and resurfacing the flywheel. Dont forget to use Honda MTF (Manual Transmission Fluid ) only so you dont wear down the internals.

PS, While the car is moving, the transmission gears and internals are already spinning= easier to shift- there is a technique called "RPM matching" where you dont need to disengage the clutch when you shift, just simply match the RPM's of the nest gear you want and it'll slip in. Altho not recommend haha.
Click to expand...
Tranny is full up with Honda MTF. Clutch and fly wheel are new as of ~20k ago with highway miles. It does feel like the clutch is not fully disengaging even when pedal is at the floor. I'm gonna replace the master cylinder i think, cuz if its not clutch hydraulics then tranny has to come off regardless. Sound logic?

Thanks for the tip on rev matching, that crossed my mind as to why i get butter smooth shifts while moving but not when stopped.
 

HeX

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Are you sure the new slave cylinder is working properly?
 

HeX

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How about the clutch line? Perhaps its old and expanding too much thus causing insufficient pressure.
 

Stock Car

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HeX said:
How about the clutch line? Perhaps its old and expanding too much thus causing insufficient pressure.
Click to expand...
Just so im clear, its possible for the flexible portion of the hydraulic line itself to degrade and bulge?
 

XpL0d3r

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Was the slave replaced before or after the symptoms occurred?
 

XpL0d3r

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Generally, you should replace both slave and master cylinders at the same time. I don't think neither that or the master are the issues here though.

It definitely seems clutch or pedal / pressure related. Occasionally with these cars the grab point can change, as it's only a nut that keeps that point in place. You might want to look into that -- it could simply be that the even with the pedal all the way down, the pressure isn't there to fully disengage the clutch because that nut loosened up.

Or, it could be an issue with the clutch itself.. exactly what @MotorMo said.
 
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Stock Car

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HeX said:
Yes.
Click to expand...
No bulging in flexible portion of clutch line.

I just adjusted the clutch to have slightly less throw, it made the symptoms I have worse. This leads me to believe the release fork is not moving enough even though it was adjusted for maximum movement. I clamped the flexible portion of clutch line and gently pushed on clutch pedal, no movement, so the master is most likely not leaking internally. Could i put a longer piston on the slave? Thanks for all the suggestions so far!
 

Stock Car

New Member
XpL0d3r said:
Generally, you should replace both slave and master cylinders at the same time. I don't think neither that or the master are the issues here though.

It definitely seems clutch or pedal / pressure related. Occasionally with these cars the grab point can change, as it's only a nut that keeps that point in place. You might want to look into that -- it could simply be that the even with the pedal all the way down, the pressure isn't there to fully disengage the clutch because that nut loosened up.

Or, it could be an issue with the clutch itself.. exactly what @MotorMo said.
Click to expand...
Are you refering to the nut that secures the push rod in place once adjusted?
 

Stock Car

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As XpLOd3R hypothesized the clutch master is not to blame, I really didn't want to drop the tranny so gave it a shot... Not sure what to look for once open considering everything is pretty new, perhaps worn clutch release fork and pivot ball?
 
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