Planning Ahead for Engine Swap

[jackdog1]

My 97 civic coupe ex has a D16Y8 with about 221000 on it, which runs great. However, in a few years (I'll wait til this one starts to fail), instead of getting a new car I'm just going to do an engine swap, since that'd still be cheaper.

My question is, considering I want to make about 3-400hp after the swap, whether I should replace it with another y8 and add a turbo, or swap in a different engine altogether. (and yes, I know the engine isn't the only thing I'd have to change if I want to up my hp)

 

[Diana Nam]

My 97 civic coupe ex has a D16Y8 with about 221000 on it, which runs great. However, in a few years (I'll wait til this one starts to fail), instead of getting a new car I'm just going to do an engine swap, since that'd still be cheaper.

My question is, considering I want to make about 3-400hp after the swap, whether I should replace it with another y8 and add a turbo, or swap in a different engine altogether. (and yes, I know the engine isn't the only thing I'd have to change if I want to up my hp)

well to be honest at that hp level internal upgrade is going to be highly recommended so with that said it won't really matter as much, which one you choose to go with. except k swaps which is still very very expensive but they can do 500hp on a completely stock bottom end which is the limit as well. but on the side note different motor has different hp that you'll be starting off from.

 

[5SpeedEJ6]

D series: Low hp, have some potential but need very good internals + turbo.
B series: one of the cheapest swaps, doesn't necessarily need internals for a turbo (depends on hp).
H series: Diana N knows a LOT more than me about these engines, so I won't say anything lol.
K series: Expensive as hell, but they have good amount of hp stock.

 

[Diana Nam]

D series: Low hp, have some potential but need very good internals + turbo.
B series: one of the cheapest swaps, doesn't necessarily need internals for a turbo (depends on hp).
H series: Diana N knows a LOT more than me about these engines, so I won't say anything lol.
K series: Expensive as hell, but they have good amount of hp stock.

so yea what he had said its up to you on what you want to do realistically

 

[jackdog1]

so yea what he had said its up to you on what you want to do realistically

I'll probably go for an H series then, thanks!

 

[Diana Nam]

no problem if you need help with it let me know F/H are interchangeable and they're my speciality lol

 

[jackdog1]

So, after doing a bit of research, I've changed my mind and decided on a B18C Type R swap (possibly turbocharged) with a 5-speed manual tranny. I was just wondering if hmotorsonline.com is a good place to buy one.

This is the one I found: http://www.hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc2000search.cgi?what=page&item=30010

Sent from my XT1064 using Tapatalk

 

[5SpeedEJ6]

hmotorsonline.com is a good choice. One of my buddies bought his full B20 swap (minus Alternator for some odd reason lol) for $900ish including tranny and everything. I've personally only heard good things about them.

 

[jackdog1]

hmotorsonline.com is a good choice. One of my buddies bought his full B20 swap (minus Alternator for some odd reason lol) for $900ish including tranny and everything. I've personally only heard good things about them.

Great! I just wanted to double check, since one day I'll be buying the most important (and expensive) part of my car from them.

Sent from my XT1064 using Tapatalk

 

[CHILD]

yes there are TONS OF CARS OVER 500 whp and daily driven or beaten on constantly. Stop putting out bullshit info that 500 is the limit when that's not true. Lots of people stop at 500 because it's easy to make that much with hardly any effort or supporting mods. People have transmission trouble at that power range long before engine failure.

K's are not nearly as expensive as they used to be years and years ago. Sure you can make it expensive as f**k with buying all brand new custom parts or the latest products on the market...but even a B series is expensive if you build it that way. Fact is, most swap a B/H/F and all the rest with all second hand parts and just the essentials rather than all custom or top end parts. Even my own build is an example of this. I purposely chose to spend a lot on things like a $400 shifter...when I had the choice to use a plastic used $40 shifter but I didn't old dirty s**t in my car. If I did it with all basic parts, it would relative in cost to a B18cR but with a much higher power output.

 

[A]]Th!ngSound]

I just wanted to chime in and say that I've personally seen stock boosted K series at 650 and 700 hp on the dyno, and the owners do beat on them all the time.

On the topic the OP's posting for, a lot of it depends on your skill level and your budget as always. If you have large amounts of money you could boost a Type R motor, but I wouldn't do it. I would buy a B18B1 complete changeover from hmotorsonline.com (AMAZING LEGIT people there btw!) and boost that. K's are all the rage right now, too. My only thing with K swaps though, is they may be cheap and easier to find, but they take more money than other swaps to do a complete (the right way) changeover. Child may have a different opinion of course.

 

[TogueEk]

Just find out how much your willing to spend & go from there. HMO Motors is a GREAT place to find motors, but if your going to do internals, why not just pay for a motor in your area for way less & pay for the machine work...

 

[TogueEk]

& those short gears on the type R & that kind of HP may not be suitable to your driving skill...

 

[CHILD]

i'm not saying its not possible but its at its matter of durability and reliability is still highly questionable at that point when you have pushed beyond known safety margin

and the K series is more durable and more reliable at that power level than B series. Honda didn't engineer a worse engine lol. It's more complex but it is better all around.

and the known safety margin on K's is higher than you think. When boosted K's were new, people barely made in the 300's, then over time tons of 400+ cars, then 500's became the norm, and it's been rising and rising. Most didn't attempt is back in the day because the K price BACK THEN was high and nobody wanted to risk the investment. You're saying 500 boosted is the limit on an engine that is capable of nearly making 500 whp built naturally aspirated. Just soak that in for a bit.

 

[xxBLOOD88SHOTxx]

Umm, we aren't talking about practicality here. Practicality doesn't exist in the automotive world period when you think about what you basically need to get from point A to B. So your affordability argument is moot. Also, we know how forced induction engines and how naturally aspirated engines work. That's why none of us agree with you on this.

I think the biggest thing that K series has over the B series is the head design and beyond that piston design. The K head probably doesn't have things like hot spots that the B series MAY have so you have less chance of detonation, better flame travel or a myriad of other pro's over the B series (this is just assumption on my part but I'm on the internet so it must be true). The alloys for the pistons and rods are probably better ( like Child said why go backwards and I know the stock sleeves are better over the B series). So it makes absolutely zero sense that the "safe" threshold for a B series is only 50hp less than a K series.

 

[Diana Nam]

Umm, we aren't talking about practicality here. Practicality doesn't exist in the automotive world period when you think about what you basically need to get from point A to B. So your affordability argument is moot. Also, we know how forced induction engines and how naturally aspirated engines work. That's why none of us agree with you on this.

I think the biggest thing that K series has over the B series is the head design and beyond that piston design. The K head probably doesn't have things like hot spots that the B series MAY have so you have less chance of detonation, better flame travel or a myriad of other pro's over the B series (this is just assumption on my part but I'm on the internet so it must be true). The alloys for the pistons and rods are probably better ( like Child said why go backwards and I know the stock sleeves are better over the B series). So it makes absolutely zero sense that the "safe" threshold for a B series is only 50hp less than a K series.

its seems like you guy are so bent up and out of shape about the whole b vs k i used b series as a example also in case you never knew 99% of the key features of k series are design made and proven and used by f/ h motor... k series are basically a new smaller improve compact version of f/ h motor variance. guesss what motor was the first to feature roller rocker arms from factory.. yes it was f23a sohc the first Honda motor to use roller rocker arms thats k series now uses instead of the old flat tappet design that Honda had use in the past. honda used specs and blue prints of f and h motor as a basic design to start from, a lot of the spec are same as the f/ h motor and thats due to fact that f/h spec was used when they designed it... lol if you really knew that those mini explosions in the cylinder is what makes the power but same time it makes the power it also wears and break down the motor slowly..... other wise a 300k + mile motor might as well be just as good as a brand new motor with 0 miles on it....maybe is you guys that need to do more researching and learning it seem like you guy don't really fully understand basics of mechanics, most people don't. you would seeing things in much different view just like a very well and highly one of the best architects they don't just see a building and s**t when they look a build in they're eyes they beyond the brick wall they see the structure and how the structure is put together. lmao....practicality has always been one of the key main things widely looked at along side with durability... the f**k kinda of world do you live in?

 

[xxBLOOD88SHOTxx]

Do you think rattling off things you just google'd makes you look smart? It isn't working, and back peddling won't save you now. Not in the least bit surprised that you took a huge swing at the practicality aspect and missed.

Look, it's cool that you're into cars and whatnot but I just can't sit here and let you misguide people and not put things into perspective for novices about what they are trying to accomplish or their goals. You've proven several times that you speak before you think/research on these forums and it kind of needs to end. When you are corrected you do EXACTLY what you did above and just blurt out a bunch of off topic run-on sentences that in no way helps the situation, simply to save face. You don't have to do that you know, just chill out and be humble. You'll get along with a lot more people that way.

 

[Diana Nam]

Do you think rattling off things you just google'd makes you look smart? It isn't working, and back peddling won't save you now. Not in the least bit surprised that you took a huge swing at the practicality aspect and missed.

Look, it's cool that you're into cars and whatnot but I just can't sit here and let you misguide people and not put things into perspective for novices about what they are trying to accomplish or their goals. You've proven several times that you speak before you think/research on these forums and it kind of needs to end. When you are corrected you do EXACTLY what you did above and just blurt out a bunch of off topic run-on sentences that in no way helps the situation, simply to save face. You don't have to do that you know, just chill out and be humble. You'll get along with a lot more people that way.

saving face ok... since your bring this up... not me YOU, i guess you didn't realize the fact that child said it him self in post 10 then acted like he never said such thing and starts arguing and say this not right thats right or its wrong and this that and third. then tries to hide it by say other things when it right there in plain English writing then you jump in and say this that and third.. and miss informantion...i speak from experience buddy. "Do you think rattling off things you just google'd makes you look smart? It isn't working, and back peddling won't save you now"lmao.....typical i know you only saying that cause you don't know any better and you don't know me. but you know what you your self is a text book example of speaking before thinking about it. but i'm sure you got a some type of response for this... i'll wait.

 

[jackdog1]

...so I'll have to decide between a boosted K or just being content with a stock B.
Got it.
You can all shut up now and stop acting like a bunch of arguing toddlers.

 

[NOLAcivic]

This thread is getting ridiculous lol. B and K series engines stock can handle decent power. They are not the same design therefore have their own ups and downs.

300-400 hp isn't hard to do on either platform with the correct combinations of parts and a decent tuner. You cut corners you will be heartbroken in the end. All B series are not made equal just like the K series. 350hp on a stock LS (B18A/B) motor can be done all day long but will the rod bolts hold forever? Probably not. 350hp on an Integra Type R motor you need a good tune b/c you can only do so much on 93 octane fuel with 11:1 compression. GS-R motor is a nice median while staying on pump gas. 400hp is getting dangerous on stock sleeves with a B series. Sure it can be done and has been done. In the end it's about the supporting mods and the fact that you get what you pay for. You can have the best tune and an injector fails and boom your done.

B16a = Great motor for boost if weak parts are considered b/c the rod stroke ratio is near perfect for high revving. Weak link are the rod bolts and rods
B18B = lower compression not the most responsive power outside of boost but more leg room for tuning error. Weak link are the rod bolts
B18C1 and USDM Integra Type R = Moderate compression that will feel nice out of boost and will help spool a larger turbo.
B18c (JDM Type R) = "high" compression for cast piston and boost. Will feel great in and out of boost and will help spooling up a larger turbo
B20B (low compression) fun motor for a smaller to moderate sized turbo but lower rev limit and doesn't flow as much air as a VTEC with the exception of a P8R head. Weak link the rod bolts
B20Z (moderate compression) see B20B

Is this car a street DD only car? Do you have access to E85? There are plenty of routes to take and planning to do before just slapping on a turbo on whatever engine.

I myself have a LS/VTEC with shot peened LS rods and ARP rod bolts / OEM JDM ITR pistons/ Stock ITR head / 70mm throttle body / JG Intake manifold / RC550cc injectors / 3" exhaust with an old Precision SC44 (60 trim) turbo hitting 300hp at only 9.5psi in New Orleans, LA (below sea level). Now a day high compression turbo builds can be done and they make great power outside of boost as well as in boost. You get the same power at a lower PSI over a lower compression motor with higher PSI. I plan to turn the boost up to 12psi and should be around 350hp and then 15psi with the aid of methanol injection. That should put me close to 400hp. My motor was never intended to be turbocharged. I used to have it in my CRX but my late friends Integra came up for sale and I sold my CRX shell and put my motor in this and he already have the SC44 in it. I figured why not. Lets see what it does.

If you want something simple and makes decent power with room to grow then just get a B18B and go boost. Add a GSR transmission to it and you will have a fun street car.