Supercharged b16 wont start, please help

[itsme]

ok, gotta OBD) b16 with a Jackson Racing Supercharger. after install, a short test drive was done, went about half throttle, lots of smoke blew out the exhaust, so let off, while idleing into driveway, car died and wont turn over.

timing marks appears to be on
all 4 cylinders have spark'
all fuses/relays are good
swapped ECU's to rule that out, same issue
fuel pump primes fine
car just cranks and cranks, it ran fine before supercharger install, and now nothing.

check all grounds/sensors and seem fine
cam gears turn super slow while cranking, shot some starting fluid into throttle body trying to get it to fire, no results.
the car was running super rich, pulled plugs and they were wet with fuel, so replaced with NGK, so running rich may have something to do with it, but i would think it would still start. any thoughts/advice/input is greatly appreciated!

 

[my93civic]

Has the ecu been tuned

 

[xxBLOOD88SHOTxx]

Have you checked compression?

Why are you even driving it with a stock map?

 

[itsme]

compresson was low in cylinder 3, i wanna say like 60-60-40-60, it isnt my car, its my best friends RWD buggy, and he test drove it to ensure no leaks, etc before tuning it. even when swapping to another stock ecu, still wont fire. and the guy that tunes our cars said the b16 can handle the supercharger on stock ECU as long as not WOT

 

[XpL0d3r]

Wait, so is it tuned or is it not tuned? Your first post leads me to believe you slapped the SC on there and took it for a spin right when you finished.

Also, your tuner is wrong. He should NOT be a tuner -- forced induction requires a tune if you want it to be done properly. Any "tuner" would know this.

ANY extra air will confuse the ECU. Too much air and not enough fuel will cause detonation, and if that happens, you can kiss the motor goodbye.

 

[itsme]

it is NOT tuned, void of a tune, tuneless. and he just said it wouldnt hurt to take it out to make sure everythign was connected right, supercharger worked etc, thats besides the point, not enough fuel isnt the issue as its running super rich, has 440 RC Injectors, FPR, Golden Eagle Fuel Rail, so its rich not lean, but cant make it fire, just cranks

 

[lethal6]

Was the compression check before or after the failure? If it was done before, you might want to do it now because you may have fubar'd the motor running it without a tune. Then again, the numbers are wrong as it wouldn't run with the compression that low. Have seen it a few times when people listen to incompetent tuners that tell them it will be fine for a while as long as they *insert excuse here*. The tuner wouldn't happen to be just some dude with a program and a laptop would it? Or is it an actual reputable shop?

Are your numbers correct? 60 60 40 60? If so, your motor is f***ed. That MINIMUM should be 135 and average for a b16 is 184. Your motor won't run with that low of compression AND even if you missed putting a 1 on the beginning 160 160 140 160, the 20 difference is a big cause for concern.

 

[obracer12]

Holy low compression batman.


ok, if you say it is so rich, you may have washed a cylinder and caused an issue in cylinder 3.. depending on the condition of the rings..

If you went into full boost at least once, you may have caused some physical damage... but you won't be able to tell that until you get it running.

Given the AFR table with the 440CC injectors, assuming you have an 8-12lb pully on the S/C, with a base tune you crossed over to WAY rich at 80% duty cycle 11.0-10.6 which makes me think you washed cyl#3.. @ 5-7k rpm and boost, fluids get forced in any gap really easily.

BUT this is just a shot in the dark given the conditions.

Have you made sure the distributor is clocked correctly? at least correct enough to get it started, have someone crank it while you manipulate the distributor toward the firewall... if you're running that rich, you might need a little advancement to get it to run and not saturate the plugs again.

240cc-440cc


12.8 12.8 14.1 14.1 14.1 14.0 13.9 13.8 13.7 13.6 13.5 13.5
12.8 12.8 13.8 13.8 13.8 13.8 13.7 13.5 13.5 13.3 13.3 13.2
12.8 12.8 13.6 13.6 13.6 13.5 13.4 13.3 13.2 13.1 13.0 13.0
12.8 12.8 13.3 13.3 13.3 13.2 13.1 13.0 12.9 12.8 12.7 12.7
12.8 12.8 13.0 13.0 13.0 13.0 12.9 12.7 12.7 12.5 12.5 12.4
12.8 12.8 12.8 12.8 12.8 12.7 12.6 12.5 12.4 12.3 12.2 12.2
12.8 12.8 12.5 12.5 12.5 12.4 12.3 12.2 12.1 12.0 11.9 11.9
12.8 12.8 12.2 12.2 12.2 12.2 12.1 11.9 11.9 11.7 11.7 11.6
12.8 12.8 12.0 12.0 12.0 11.9 11.8 11.7 11.6 11.5 11.4 11.4
12.8 12.8 11.7 11.7 11.7 11.6 11.5 11.4 11.3 11.2 11.1 11.1
12.8 12.8 11.4 11.4 11.4 11.4 11.3 11.1 11.1 10.9 10.9 10.8
12.8 12.8 11.2 11.2 11.2 11.1 11.0 10.9 10.8 10.7 10.6 10.6

<xAxis cols="12" name="rpm">
900
1400
2000
2500
3100
3600
4200
4800
5300
5900
6400
7000
</xAxis>
<yAxis name="kpaix" rows="12">
25.0
38.0
52.0
64.0
78.0
92.0
104.0
118.0
130.0
144.0
158.0
170.0
</yAxis>

 

[itsme]

the compression test was AFTER the motor died, and maybe my buddy did say 160-160-140-160, yes we tested the distributer, and it was just random, like ran great pre-supercharger, then 3mns of driving, lots of smock, and boom. its dead. we thought it jumped timing and bent a valve, but timing was still on, everything we have done leads to timing, even though it looks set still, just out of possible options. and the tuner has tuned a LOT of cars, tunes for a reputable shop here in iowa, who knows, maybe there was some mis communication or something between tuner and my friend

 

[lethal6]

If he is a good tuner, he wouldn't have given advice like that. I am betting a huge guess that your friend heard what he wanted to hear and the tuner didn't actually tell him it was ok to drive around without it being tuned.

I agree with obracer and think that you guys washed out cylinder 3, plus probably did some internal damage. The bad number on cylinder 3 compression gives a proof to this. 20 off is not good and in most cars 10 percent is the most you should be comfortable with. Now, they say that 28 is the MAX difference you want with a b16, I would still be concerned with this 20 difference.

 

[itsme]

appreciate the input guys, really do. time for a rebuild it would seem. im sure he/we will screw with it a bit more to rule everything out, if nothing fixes it it'll be time for overhaul. thanks again!

 

[xxBLOOD88SHOTxx]

Reset the timing so you know it is 100% right.

Put the stock injectors in and start it, you can check for leaks without driving it around. Not that it matters seeing as you have a 13% difference in compression now. It probably pooled up fuel on top of the piston and either ignited at the wrong time or had too much timing and detonated, or a mix of both.