Temperature Guage Oddities

LucasAHawkins

New Member
So, to make a long story concise, I have a 97 Civic LX. Recently, I noticed the temperature guage indicating that I was driving hot. I checked the fan, fan came on no problem. Coolant temperature at filler seemed to be ok with temperature guage. Fan did cycle on and off indicating to me normal temperature. However, it recently indicated overheating. I took the car to a shop that I trust with these types of issues. They informed me that the guage in the instrument cluster was bad and that it needed to be replaced. After replacement I got the car back today. Now, it is indicating 3/4 hot, will dump to half at full heat if switched from AC. When at 3/4 or higher hot on the in-dash guage, they ran a check on their hand-held computer which showed that the ECU was reading temps of about 212. They agreed to take the car back, at no charge, to try to figure out what the heck is going on. Has anyone else had similar issues or have any clue? The sender unit was replaced as well, so I am thinking the only possibility left would be the wire between the guage and the sender is somehow jacked up. No loss of coolant at all, no white smoke, radiator is not clogged, thermostat is new and works given the temperature reported by the ECU. Right now they have no clue and I am at a loss as well.
 

Ej1Daily

New Member
Maybe you can check to see if its the CTS sensor, Coolant Temperature Sensor
In my experience, I had replaced the thermostat, radiator, and hoses all brand new and it would supposedly overheat.....
The gauge would stay at normal for a bit then jump all the way up then back to half and it would just repeat.....
I replaced the CTS and its been running great =)
 


LucasAHawkins

New Member
Was replaced, so was fan switch, twice. So over the weekend I got it back from the shop, still doing the same crap. So I felt up the radiator and voila, wouldn't you know the shop, apparently, failed to check the radiator and it was plugged. Radiator replaced. Now the fan kicks on somewhere a little less than 3/4 hot, and brings the temp down at idle. At what point should the fan kick on according to the guage inside? I cleaned up my grounds, have new guages inside, a new temperature sensor, so I am getting like new readings. I figured it would be more static as most cars are and you wouldn't see it move much, but I suppose this isn't realistic as the fan would never kick on if the temps never rose. I am thinking either the fan switch is bunk, or going with a fan switch that kicks on at a lower temp.\
 

LucasAHawkins

New Member
Should also point out that it now drives around less than 1/2 at speed seems to be normal unlike what it was doing before. Temp only moves at idle with AC on in this hot @$$ weather.
 


LucasAHawkins

New Member
It would have to be a ground that I somehow missed. I cleaned up the battery terminals both positive and negative, the negative to ground post, screw, and mating area, the ground to thermostat including screw, post, and mating area. Cleaned the screws, post, and mating areas from the ground running from the valve cover to the front of the car as well. There is also a single wire ground near the one from the valve cover off the front of the engine that I cleaned up as well.I would think the ground to the guage would be covered in that mess of grounds somewhere, but maybe not? I know there are a few up by the lights that are hard to access but I didn't think that would be it. No CEL's, no coolant in spark plugs, no smoke still, no water out the pipe, I pressure tested the coolant system myself and it held fine so I am confidant that the HG is not a factor. All the hoses are new and clamped well, thermostat opens at it should, jiggle pin at the top as it should be. I read from someone else that his Civic does this in hot weather with the AC on and since I am new to civic ownership and maybe have things running right, I am just being oversensitive? I am used to the Ford style cars where they made it so the temp switch never moves from one area unless you have serious overheating issues, which we know isn't really reflective of what happens when you are at idle with AC full blast in the heat, say at McDonald's drive through after coming off the highway. Regular idle temp is fine if you never leave to go anywhere, even with AC on. I ordered a Mishimoto 80C fan switch to kick the fans on at 176 F since the stock thermostat opens at 170 anyway, I figure this should eliminate the up and down at idle after a lot of movement and get me to something I am more used to.
 

LucasAHawkins

New Member
Further, had I known of there existance prior to installing a new radiator, I may have gone with the Mishimoto or similar style double radiator for more effective cooling. The miniture style of this radiator system boggles my mind still, such a tiny, flimsy radiator to pull off all the heat exchange that is expected of it is a mystery to me.
 

LucasAHawkins

New Member
So, it started acting stupid again at idle, temp getting way out of control, fan seemingly kicking on way too late and turning off way to early. So, I pinned the fan switch with a paperclip and drove around, highway and city and wouldn't you know, NO temp movement at all, stayed where it is supposed to. Checked the spark plugs, again, for anti-freeze, none to be found. Still no water out of pipe, no white smoke, and as mentioned previously, over the weekend it passed a radiator pressure test. Ordered the 80 celcius fan switch, I think that should take care of this problem since it kicks on shortly after the thermostat opens so I am thinking this will be a non-issue in a few days. This is the THIRD fan switch I have been on so I have no clue what the issue is. Sometimes it can be close to overheating and the fan doesn't kick on. I swapped around relays and that didn't seem to make any difference at all in terms of kick on/kick off. Is there any way to test these out?
 

Logan98036wa

New Member
Registered VIP
5+ Year Member
Did you check your transmission ground?

Also check your charging system, I had my alternator ground turn to dust and it caused my car to do all sorts or weird things
 

LucasAHawkins

New Member
I found a ground that runs off the harness that goes to the fan switch that has a single ground on it to the tranny. Is that what you are talking about? If so, it looks like cr@p and needs a thourough cleaning. Will check the alternator. I refuse to believe that it's the guage now because it will hold at normal at highway driving. It's like the fan wants to come on WAYYY to late and cut of way to early is the problem now, and as mentioned, on third fan switch!
 

LucasAHawkins

New Member
So fan still kicking on late, took it back to shop and they claim that the fan coming on at 3/4 hot to bring it down at idle is normal and nothing to worry about. For you Civic owners out there, what say you? Does your temp guages move at idle?
 

LucasAHawkins

New Member
So, for anyone who comes across this discussion board down the road and have tried the things I tried to no avail and are 99% confidant (through testing, not prayer) that your head gasket isn't in shambles, I FINALLY found the solution to this nightmare, partially on my own and partially through research. Part one, there is a ground wire near the passenger side lights. The ground contacts on my car looked like crap so I thoroughly cleaned them up including the contact points, screw, and I sanded the paint around where the washer would meet with the frame for better grouding. This gave the fan more "roar" if you will, then what it had before. Did it solve the temp going up still? No, not really, as it would still go up to 3/4 then come back down, albeit faster then before. The second part solution was ditching the lame fan switch and going with a Mishimoto 80C fan switch. The car now drives like every car I've had before, the temp holds at right below the coolant "logo" if you will, to the right and doesn't move from there no matter what, and I tried my hardest tonight to get it to budge including full blast AC at idle with no movement, where before this would have made the temp guage go up up up before the fan ever kicked on. Further, the fan isn't on all that much and does cycle off at idle and once you get moving, it just seems to do a better job of catching things before it gets out of hand and leaves it where it should be, without ever budging. The thermostat opens at 170 so no interference there. I don't know why the "OEM" rated fan switches (all three of them) didn't work out, and frankly, I don't care. All I know is that it is working the way it is supposed to now and that's all I care about so I figured I'd share my solution with you. Since the car first started doing this, the only thing before going with the Mishimoto fan switch that made a big difference was going to a new radiator. However, if I had it to do over again, I would have gone with the double radiators that you can find anywhere on the net, Mishimoto makes a good one with a better than OEM fan system.

The only things I can think of that may have effected the other fan switches were that I have a Duralast thermostat in there which advertises "50%" more flow through at open then OEM. Maybe the coolant had to get hotter to make contact due to more flow through the thermostat which hadn't been considered by Honda when the car was made. Maybe the fan switch somehow grounds, through the threads, to the thermostat housing and since the housing is as old as the car, the contacts aren't as great which throws off the temps and makes the Mishimoto more effective. Like I said, I don't know, and as mentioned above, don't care anymore since it is now doing what I want it to do. So, all you can do is try it out, but ONLY if you know your HG isn't bad because otherwise, you mask the symptoms and are waiting for a worse problem down the road. How do I know my HG isn't bad? Leakdown test, pressure test, carbon test of the fluid. All three negative. Two you can do for free, one for $50.
 

STEV0

New Member
i have this same problem ive put a better pressure cap on and for the last week its been fine =) if uve not changed that give it ago
 

LucasAHawkins

New Member
Well, ladies and gentlemen, I re-appear a humbled man. After watching the guage like a hawk and watching the coolant like a hawk, I discovered that coolant was being pushed out, but only at highway speeds. Took off rad cap (when cool), only to discover the dreaded beer foaming and bubble action when the accelerator was increased to a highway type speed. Uh oh... Had shop re-test with block tester at high idle and low and behold........EXHAUST GAS. Why the exhaust gas never showed at an idle test is surprising, but it didn't. I am wondering if the shop messed up the leak down test because one would think it should have shown up there, unless they never did one and said they did since they never believed it was the head gasket in the first place. So, long story short, now that my cooling system has been all but re-placed, looks like I will be doing a head gasket job next week along with using a already re-manufactured head (including having a valve job already done for me!) so I don't have to wait for a machine shop to re-surface the head. The thing is, it runs magically and you wouldn't notice anything until the the exhaust has slowly weedled out the coolant through the overflow and you hit a traffic light. They think it is a minor leak since there is no evidence, anywhere, of a head gasket leak (such as coolant in oil, oil in coolant, white smoke, water out the pipe, etc) other then noticing some streaking outside of the head gasket near cylinder one, which I suspect might be where it is shot. I will update later where the issue was in the gasket once I do it. Assuming all parts are here, I am aiming for next Sat. Anyone have any advice for a head gasket job (other then to not let silicone/rtv sealant near the head gasket) for this vehicle since I have never done it? I will also be using new head bolts. It looks easier then the old T-Bird head job I did in the past, but maybe I am kidding myself. I would NEVER have imagined it was a head gasket because the car runs so smooth, and even the shop was surprised because they thought it would pass easily and that the problem had to be elsewhere. But hey, it is what it is. Just wanted to update on where things stood.
 


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