Toe Vs. Camber

[SRLNCLT]

Hey again. I think I may have figured a lil somethin out. I am curious what the difference between tire wear on camber would be then if the toe was out. If it is camber I would think the wear would be even. My guess is that if the toe was out, the wear would be uneven. Am I right?
Thanks
L.

 

[Liz]

I dont want to come across as a thread jack but seems like the right people will be reading this... I bought my car used and it was already dropped. So how would i know if the guy put a camber kit on there?? I have looked but not sure what i should be looking for and dont I mean the pic of them laying down you see on ebay.

Thanks

 

[solostsracer]

Camber and toe will both wear the shoulders of your tires. As with any suspension changes you should always get an alignment to make sure your toe is within spec. Since camber is not adjustable unless you have a camber kit on your car.

In my experience toe will wear your tires quicker than camber.

And to see if you have a camber kit just take off your front wheel and see if the upper control arms are a different color.

 

[ocbasbalburg]

here, this is what "civic hatch" said about it, and it makes perfect sense: "the best way to descride camber, toe and caster, is put your hands open infront of you with you plams facing each other. now tilt your thumbs inward or outwards, this is camber. now go back straight, put your finger tips closer or further together keeping your hands straight, so that they point inwards or outwards, this is toe, and if you point you fingers upwards of downwards this is caster.

if you look at the rear of a car and see the top of the tire leaning in or out then that is camber
if you look at the car from above and the front of the tires are pointing in or out then this is toe
if you look at the front steering knuckle and it point forward or to the rear then this is caster, caster isnt adjusted much unless you get into a accident the throws it off."

Personaly, i would think that if you camber was off, the inside of the tires would wear very quickly. if the toe was off, the tires would also wear quickly, but not as uneven. Plus, when do you rreally see toe being off by that much? Just get an anlignment at a shop and they will give you a print out saying what your camber is and they will correct your toe. If you camber is then off, which they can't adjust without a camber kit, go ahead and buy one

 

[civic hatch]

camber will wear the inside only or outside only of your tires depending on if you have postive camber or negative camber, toe will wear tires qucker, reason is you tires are not running straight with the car,

example when i swaped out my rear LCA for some SPC ones they were a about .5 of a inch shorter than the stock, now .5 dosent seem like much. but when i started to drive my car the back of my car was moving side to side like i had broke something, what had happened was both my rear tires were pointing outwardsand the rear of my car was trying to drive straight and my wheels wouldnt let it.i had a 30 min drive, highway speeds to get to my alignment shop and you could see wear on my tires.

toe is a b***h and will kill tires quick, camber is bad but you can last a little longer on bad camber.



to see if there is a camber kit under your car, look and the ball joints and see if there adjustable, or look at the upper A arm (front) and see if there is any kind of bolts that allow you to adjust, youll see them if there is, as for the rear, look at the upper arm and see if it adjustable in any way of look and see if the bolts holding the arm to the frame have been changed.

 

[SiGSR]

Awesome information!

 

[anekin007]

read this site, it explains about caster, camber, and toe. it also has pictures.

http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

 

[solostsracer]

I've run with -2.7 camber front and -2.0 rear for the past two years and only purchased one set of tires per year. Now mind you I autocross about 30-40 times a year and put about 15-20,000 miles on my tires.

Even in 2002 when I did a full HPDE at VIR in February with my Azenis they wore fine. But I also run 0 toe front and rear so there is no friction wearing down the shoulders.

 

[ocbasbalburg]

I've run with -2.7 camber front and -2.0 rear for the past two years and only purchased one set of tires per year. Now mind you I autocross about 30-40 times a year and put about 15-20,000 miles on my tires.

Even in 2002 when I did a full HPDE at VIR in February with my Azenis they wore fine. But I also run 0 toe front and rear so there is no friction wearing down the shoulders.

I drive about 15k miles a year and i hope i don't have to get new tires each year. But are your tires wearing evenly or uneven? i am going to put a camber kit on my front this weekedna and in the rear my camber is still -2 after the washer trick. I am thinking that those back tires are going to wear fast as hell on the inside becuase the tilt of the wheels are very noticable. But i had the toe adjusted to 0... so i don't know if i should put more washers on the rear

 

[Liz]

Im also doing the washer trick this weekend... How many washers did you use ocbasbalburg?

 

[loccusst]

Straight from the factory our car comes with a negative camber in the rear. Negative camber helps in handeling but too much means you will wear out your tires faster. I thought camber kits didn't always come with the upper arm?

 

[Liz]

good info I never knew that... I dont know crap about suspension, thats why I love CC. Learn for free!

 

[ocbasbalburg]

Im also doing the washer trick this weekend... How many washers did you use ocbasbalburg?

i used 2 washers on each bolt and i lowered my car 1.75 . I was told that 1 washer would correct every inch you lowered, but this isn't true at all. I still have a -2.0 camber on my rear, so i am planning on putting one or two more. It is a very easy install, especially if you have an air wrench, so its not a big deal to do it again. BUT, as soon as you do it, take it to get a full alignment because your toe will be off and that wears your tires out the fastest

 

[ocbasbalburg]

Straight from the factory our car comes with a negative camber in the rear. Negative camber helps in handeling but too much means you will wear out your tires faster. I thought camber kits didn't always come with the upper arm?

The specs. for honda rear wheels is + - .2 and + - 1.0, which means that you are right... the rear camber is not 0 and shouldn't be. it should be .2 - 1.0 off, either way, but it should be negative to improve handeling

 

[edhgreatone]

my car is dropped to the ground on ground control coilovers... and the back tires are perfectly even however my front ones were fine for a little while but now the very very very inside of the tires are wearing faster then the rest sence its just the very inside like 1 cm at the most i'm not even going to both getting a camber kit yet... so this means that my camber is messed up correct??

 

[SRLNCLT]

ocbasbalburg, I got the same problem. I've got 2 washers on mine. I'm adding 2 more with longer bolts and I am also adding a front camber kit. Man, I wish the front camber kit was as cheap to do as the rear camber kit.
L.

 

[ocbasbalburg]

ocbasbalburg, I got the same problem. I've got 2 washers on mine. I'm adding 2 more with longer bolts and I am also adding a front camber kit. Man, I wish the front camber kit was as cheap to do as the rear camber kit.
L.

Yeah i know hey... i am going to get my front camber done this weekend at tires plus. THey said it should only cost 120 with parts and installation and full alignment. How much longer of bolts are you getting? I have 40mm on right now and i think i read that 45 mm is the longest that you can go. How low did you drop your car by the way?

 

[ocbasbalburg]

my car is dropped to the ground on ground control coilovers... and the back tires are perfectly even however my front ones were fine for a little while but now the very very very inside of the tires are wearing faster then the rest sence its just the very inside like 1 cm at the most i'm not even going to both getting a camber kit yet... so this means that my camber is messed up correct??

Yes, your camber is messed up.. but that seems wierd that only that little part is wearing. Maybe your tires are hitting the control arm or something. Did you even go and get an alignment? beacuse they will tell you how much your camber is actually off, if any