What exactly does tuning a turbo do? Obviously it is very important to keep your motor. But when people say tunning is the key? What exactly is that? Who would do that? How much money? And how often do you have to tune your turbo?
Tuning A Turbo
- Thread starter edhgreatone
- Start date
hmm... i see does this get pretty costly? i all ready planned how to pay for the turbo... i'm just curious how the money for matenience and that stuff
If you want to tune it the right way, yes it can cost you a pretty penny. But if you don't plan to run any crazy amounts of boost, you could get away with a couple of piggyback controllers i.e. Apex-i AFC for fuel control and MSD 6 BTM for ignition timing. You won't be able to get seperate hi-res Fuel and Ignition maps like you would from a stand-alone engine management, but it works for lower boost levels.
You need to run something to control fuel because when more air (from boost) is introduced, the stock ECU can't compensate for that much higher a damand on fuel. This will cause your engine to lean out and run super hot. And ignition timing needs attention because what happens is when adding boost is that it speeds up the burn rate of the a/f mix. If the engine is running on the stock timing the power stroke will begin earlier than it would compared to the stock N/A, causing the force to be exerted on the bearings and crankshaft mains, while the cylinder is still at TDC. This is where lower compression pistons come into play and high octane fuel come into play.
Cam timing because (in a "Dohick" engine) it shortens the overlap period. On a boosted engine you won't rely as much on the scavenging effect to fill the cylinders (boost already have pressurized air). If there is a lot of overlap, the boosted air coming into the cylinder will just simply get blown out the exhaust. It's pretty obvious why you woul not want this, especially if you plan to run the car mostly in the lower rev range. You can also use cam gears to tune the powerband (this applies to all OHC engines) and move it around.
You need to run something to control fuel because when more air (from boost) is introduced, the stock ECU can't compensate for that much higher a damand on fuel. This will cause your engine to lean out and run super hot. And ignition timing needs attention because what happens is when adding boost is that it speeds up the burn rate of the a/f mix. If the engine is running on the stock timing the power stroke will begin earlier than it would compared to the stock N/A, causing the force to be exerted on the bearings and crankshaft mains, while the cylinder is still at TDC. This is where lower compression pistons come into play and high octane fuel come into play.
Cam timing because (in a "Dohick" engine) it shortens the overlap period. On a boosted engine you won't rely as much on the scavenging effect to fill the cylinders (boost already have pressurized air). If there is a lot of overlap, the boosted air coming into the cylinder will just simply get blown out the exhaust. It's pretty obvious why you woul not want this, especially if you plan to run the car mostly in the lower rev range. You can also use cam gears to tune the powerband (this applies to all OHC engines) and move it around.
it does get pretty expensive, dyno time can be about 100 - 150 bucks an hour and to get it done right you might need about 5 or 6 hoursedhgreatone said:hmm... i see does this get pretty costly? i all ready planned how to pay for the turbo... i'm just curious how the money for matenience and that stuff
ouch... thats a big chunk of change... but i guess if pays off in the end i'd rather pay for tuning then to pay for a brand new motor... is it true that you have to get your turbo tuned every 5,000 miles.... so does that mean its going to be like 150 dollars every 5,000 mile or maybe more money??? oh and for the b18c1 i know you can get the greddy kit for the b16a2 and put that on there with some custom wiring but is there any other small turbo kit made for the gsr's i am having trouble finding one.... thank you
As long as you don't change anything major in your car, you won't have to worry about re-tuning the thing every so often. Just remember the basic tune-ups, like belts, oil change, plugs, etc.
you need to search and read. I answer these questions almost daily.edhgreatone said:ouch... thats a big chunk of change... but i guess if pays off in the end i'd rather pay for tuning then to pay for a brand new motor... is it true that you have to get your turbo tuned every 5,000 miles.... so does that mean its going to be like 150 dollars every 5,000 mile or maybe more money??? oh and for the b18c1 i know you can get the greddy kit for the b16a2 and put that on there with some custom wiring but is there any other small turbo kit made for the gsr's i am having trouble finding one.... thank you
Kits aint s**t. Build your own. Read. Learn. Ask other people about their setups. Realize what you're getting yourself into.
i'd perfer a kit just b/c i will have the money and i don't want to go searching around for parts all the time... are there any smalls turbo kits for the gsr engine or turbos themselves all the ones i see are freakin stage 2 and 3 don't want them i want a smaller turbo that spools quickly with no lag... perferable a ball bearing one.... i also want the least amount of problems possible....
building a kit yourself will be cheaper, has that not gotten thru your head?? plus, this way youll actually learn some\thing. dont go and buy a turbo now, read articles, read tech, read read read read read...there is a great book on turbocharging and the technical stuff, which i recommend you get, i cant remember the name of it, but its referred to as "the bible of turbos". dont be a doosh and buy a kit, hve someone else put it on. read, learn, ask LEGIT questions, figure out how much hp you want, figure out when you want to see boost, figure out what kinda driving you are gonna be dong with your car, figure out all this s**t, then buy one. ive been reading and asking questions for almost a year, ive learned so much....ive figured out what i want out of my car. you should do the same, take your time, figure s**t out.
You really dont know much about turbo's (ball bearing making quicker boost hehe). Nor do you know anything about kits.edhgreatone said:i'd perfer a kit just b/c i will have the money and i don't want to go searching around for parts all the time... are there any smalls turbo kits for the gsr engine or turbos themselves all the ones i see are freakin stage 2 and 3 don't want them i want a smaller turbo that spools quickly with no lag... perferable a ball bearing one.... i also want the least amount of problems possible....
We've all been really informative, and then for you to make an asinine comment like that makes me want to delete all my posts.
A t25 is a small turbo. You wont be able to make power up in the high rpms though.
If you want a quick response turbo, how about you downgrade to a d-series, because thats just a waste of a b18c1.
See turbos are exhaust driven. Meaning the more exhaust you make the faster they spool and more power they make. On a DOHC 1.8 litre, youre going to make more exhaust, and therefor more power than with a SOHC 1.6 litre.
f**k it Im done with this.
_jac0b
your telling me stuff i already know but thanks.... no i'm not turboing a d series... also "_jacob" all the sites that i read say that ball bearing turbos help prevent turbo lag a little... but if i'm wrong correct me.... if i were to get a stage 2 i'd want a FMAX or REVHARD... does anybody know good or bad things about these turbos?
they do a bit, but it depends more on compressor side (if im not mistaken..im not claimin to be a turbo god here).edhgreatone said:your telling me stuff i already know but thanks.... no i'm not turboing a d series... also "_jacob" all the sites that i read say that ball bearing turbos help prevent turbo lag a little... but if i'm wrong correct me.... if i were to get a stage 2 i'd want a FMAX or REVHARD... does anybody know good or bad things about these turbos?
everyone has already told you what is most logical, economical, and strongest (gain wise), yet you choose to ignore it.
Thats your own mistake.
who is everybody? i'm not ignoring anyone
to say that kits aint s**t is a totally ignorant thing to say. Why would companys spend the millions of dollars in R&D to design something specific to your car, if they were s**t? If your getting a turbo for your Honda, I suggest investing in Hondata S100, or 200 with boost. And get it tuned by a mechanic who is extremely knowledgable in tuning hondas. Without the proper tuning, and dyno time, a turbo will be worthless. Or if you want a fancy digital clock to look at, get an A'pexi AFC, or VAFC, it'll be a good waste of money.
LOL... good point i second thisundercoverSI said:to say that kits aint s**t is a totally ignorant thing to say. Why would companys spend the millions of dollars in R&D to design something specific to your car, if they were s**t? If your getting a turbo for your Honda, I suggest investing in Hondata S100, or 200 with boost. And get it tuned by a mechanic who is extremely knowledgable in tuning hondas. Without the proper tuning, and dyno time, a turbo will be worthless. Or if you want a fancy digital clock to look at, get an A'pexi AFC, or VAFC, it'll be a good waste of money.
^^ oh you just agree to what everyone says.
Then why does apc and obx spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to make shitty products?? i know its not the same, but it way it is. no one said kits are pieces of s**t, but they cost WAY too much for what you are getting. I'd rather spend my money wisely and get the SYSTEM (not kit, cuz i want it to be complete. talking about how kits and systems are different, which im sure you should know.) This way, ill get more, better products, have it work just as well, and be cheaper.
Then why does apc and obx spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to make shitty products?? i know its not the same, but it way it is. no one said kits are pieces of s**t, but they cost WAY too much for what you are getting. I'd rather spend my money wisely and get the SYSTEM (not kit, cuz i want it to be complete. talking about how kits and systems are different, which im sure you should know.) This way, ill get more, better products, have it work just as well, and be cheaper.
so then what happends when you can't find a part you need and your stuck
Damn...yalls is so ruthless.
Aight Ed. Kits are great if you want a simple "bolt-on" system where most of the parts already come with it. The advantage is that you won't have to worry about finding all sorts of different little pieces here and there and most of the tuning has already been done for you. Sort of like a "put-it-on and forget-about-it" afair. But there are some disadvantages to them as well. First of all, like everybody's been saying, it might cost a bit more. Upgrading in the future may not be as easy as well. And kits are great if you don't plan to boost anymore than what the turbo manufacturer intended the kit to be left at. Once you start jacking-up the boost, it's time for retuning. Note that I underlined where I said "most" of the tuning has already been done. The truth is that no two engines are the same. So when the manufacturer puts together a kit, they can only tune their fuel controller to an "average" of that type of engine. But most likely it won't be exact for you engine. If you're still interested check out F-max/Turbonetics, Rev-Hard, Greddy, Drag, JG Edelbrock and Garrett's line of turbo kits.
JG Edelbrock: http://edelbrock.com/automotive/index.html
F-Max: http://www.turboneticsinc.com/
Rev-Hard: http://www.revhard.com/
Greddy: http://www.greddy.com/
DRAG: http://www.dragturbokits.com/
Garrett: http://www.turbobygarrett.com/
F-Max, Rev-Hard and DRAG all use the industry standard T3/T4 (A T3 turbine mounted to a T4 compressor) hybrid for a combination of great spool-up and top-end flow. Each company has their own style of bearing, some ball bearing and the others use thrust bearings. Greddy uses the Mitsubishi TDOH-18G turbo which uses standard thrust bearings instead of a ball bearing center. It still is able to achieve great spool-up and monstrous top-end flow (on par with a 16G, though it is a bigger turbo). JG's kit uses a T28 (comes in many factory turbo'd cars) and has a special updated ball bearing center. And of course, Garrett. This kit uses my favorite turbo's. Garretts own line of GT turbo's. The next generation of turbos utilizing the latest in turbocharger aerodynamics and technology. These are some of the fastest spooling turbo's you come across. Garretts kit Honda Civic kit comes with the GT28R Ball Bearing turbo for almost zero lag and still flow enough air for around 300 whp. Oh and did I mention JG and the Garrett kit is currently only available for the D16Y8?
Well hope this helps. Your money is your money, so get what you want. But if you ever do change your mind and want to custom piece your own turbo feel free to pm me.
Aight Ed. Kits are great if you want a simple "bolt-on" system where most of the parts already come with it. The advantage is that you won't have to worry about finding all sorts of different little pieces here and there and most of the tuning has already been done for you. Sort of like a "put-it-on and forget-about-it" afair. But there are some disadvantages to them as well. First of all, like everybody's been saying, it might cost a bit more. Upgrading in the future may not be as easy as well. And kits are great if you don't plan to boost anymore than what the turbo manufacturer intended the kit to be left at. Once you start jacking-up the boost, it's time for retuning. Note that I underlined where I said "most" of the tuning has already been done. The truth is that no two engines are the same. So when the manufacturer puts together a kit, they can only tune their fuel controller to an "average" of that type of engine. But most likely it won't be exact for you engine. If you're still interested check out F-max/Turbonetics, Rev-Hard, Greddy, Drag, JG Edelbrock and Garrett's line of turbo kits.
JG Edelbrock: http://edelbrock.com/automotive/index.html
F-Max: http://www.turboneticsinc.com/
Rev-Hard: http://www.revhard.com/
Greddy: http://www.greddy.com/
DRAG: http://www.dragturbokits.com/
Garrett: http://www.turbobygarrett.com/
F-Max, Rev-Hard and DRAG all use the industry standard T3/T4 (A T3 turbine mounted to a T4 compressor) hybrid for a combination of great spool-up and top-end flow. Each company has their own style of bearing, some ball bearing and the others use thrust bearings. Greddy uses the Mitsubishi TDOH-18G turbo which uses standard thrust bearings instead of a ball bearing center. It still is able to achieve great spool-up and monstrous top-end flow (on par with a 16G, though it is a bigger turbo). JG's kit uses a T28 (comes in many factory turbo'd cars) and has a special updated ball bearing center. And of course, Garrett. This kit uses my favorite turbo's. Garretts own line of GT turbo's. The next generation of turbos utilizing the latest in turbocharger aerodynamics and technology. These are some of the fastest spooling turbo's you come across. Garretts kit Honda Civic kit comes with the GT28R Ball Bearing turbo for almost zero lag and still flow enough air for around 300 whp. Oh and did I mention JG and the Garrett kit is currently only available for the D16Y8?
Well hope this helps. Your money is your money, so get what you want. But if you ever do change your mind and want to custom piece your own turbo feel free to pm me.