obd1 for the infamous y8

[RKSskier]

Okay, so Im sure many of you are aware of the timing issues that are related to a y8 that is converted to obd1. Well just a quick reminder of the general situation. p2p runs idle at 21.75, the y8 cam gear is off one half tooth, so i think that it is offset by 9.75 or 9.72 degrees. A y8 runs at 12 degrees I believe if you check iwth the timing light. Problem is, I'm not sure how to setup a basemap for the y8. I want to figure out a basemap that can be as close to stock timing and fuel as possible. Im not too worried about fuel, just getting the timing set correctly at idle and base. I have read the threads on hmt and all i could find on pgmfi, and h-t, and I know that J.Davis pretty much has a good idea of whats going on, but I just still dont have a full understanding of the issue.

So if anyone knows more about the obd1 y8 timing issue I would greatly appreciate some info and help. Im hoping to start playing with it at the end of this week and a little next week, as I will be street tuning it NA the first week of jan. At that point the idea is to get the p28 running as good or better than stock. Then after that it will be time to slap the turbo on, and I certainly hope to have it installed and well-tuned before Jan is over. (hopefully around mid jan)

Thanks guys, hope someone knows!
RKSskier

 

[xxsenceo89x]

y not get an adjustable cam gear and set the timing straight? seems easier. thats my plan..

 

[93turbo16]

y not get an adjustable cam gear and set the timing straight? seems easier. thats my plan..

No, you don't want to do that unless you are running a Z6 cam in your Y8.

To address the timing issue, how ever you decide to do it is to make sure you sync you BASE idle timing with a timing light. From there on out you should be ok.

Usually what I do is sync them to 16*, just like a stock Z6 map. Then I have a basemap from a tuned Y8 that I did on the dyno and I use that as a starting point. Y8s don't like nearly as much timing in boost as the Z6 does.

 

[RKSskier]

93 turbo, can you expain a little more what I need to do.

I believe stock y8 will show 12 degrees if I take a timing light to it now, so I assume I will want to get it to that once i have the p28 in. However I just guess i really don't understand the full coorelation between the ecu timing and the base timing and how that all works.

My biggest thing is just that the ecu needs to have the same timing in the idle area that it is manually set to at idle right? If that is the case does that mean that...... Whatever I set the timing at manually with the dizzy is what the idle timing will be and that changing the idle region in the maps doesnt actually change the timing at idle, but rather just changes what the ecu thinks is timing, so idle will be the same whether the maps say 12 or 20, but it will change what real timing will be when the ecu is outside of the idle region?

Or maybe thats wrong, and the timing is the sum of the ecu timing and the manual timing?

If I just want to set the ecu timing with the base(manual/dizzy) timing, then shouldnt I just read the timing now (p2p) ecu with a timing light, i think i will see 12 degrees? Then couldnt I just put the p28 to 12 degrees in the maps and never touch the dizzy?

I assume tthat is wrong as i am pretty sure that for some reason I will have to adjust the dizzy as well as the maps, I just dont understand right now.

Also any guess on where to start for vacuum or even the full NA timing maps,
Just looking at the supposed p2p maps they have much less timing than the z6, but word on the street is that those are not relavent becuase on obd2 it might be more of a min timing map and run more off knock sensor feedback.

thanks for the help 93turbo,

sorry Im being slow, but i just really want to fully understand anything before I do it to my car, are more importantly why.

Any more help is still greatly appreciated guys!

 

[93turbo16]

93 turbo, can you expain a little more what I need to do.

I believe stock y8 will show 12 degrees if I take a timing light to it now, so I assume I will want to get it to that once i have the p28 in. However I just guess i really don't understand the full coorelation between the ecu timing and the base timing and how that all works.

My biggest thing is just that the ecu needs to have the same timing in the idle area that it is manually set to at idle right? If that is the case does that mean that...... Whatever I set the timing at manually with the dizzy is what the idle timing will be and that changing the idle region in the maps doesnt actually change the timing at idle, but rather just changes what the ecu thinks is timing, so idle will be the same whether the maps say 12 or 20, but it will change what real timing will be when the ecu is outside of the idle region?

Or maybe thats wrong, and the timing is the sum of the ecu timing and the manual timing?

If I just want to set the ecu timing with the base(manual/dizzy) timing, then shouldnt I just read the timing now (p2p) ecu with a timing light, i think i will see 12 degrees? Then couldnt I just put the p28 to 12 degrees in the maps and never touch the dizzy?

I assume tthat is wrong as i am pretty sure that for some reason I will have to adjust the dizzy as well as the maps, I just dont understand right now.

Also any guess on where to start for vacuum or even the full NA timing maps,
Just looking at the supposed p2p maps they have much less timing than the z6, but word on the street is that those are not relavent becuase on obd2 it might be more of a min timing map and run more off knock sensor feedback.

thanks for the help 93turbo,

sorry Im being slow, but i just really want to fully understand anything before I do it to my car, are more importantly why.

Any more help is still greatly appreciated guys!

Shoot me a PM or AIM, we can discuss.

 

[RKSskier]

Just wanted to mention that John is very nice, and very helpful. He listened to and answered many of my questions, and was just a really cool guy to chat with. I mean he is a tuner, as a job, and was willing to discuss alot of stuff with me and teach me some stuff. Very knowledable and very nice! Seriously if your near his area and looking for a tuner, I would highly reccomend at least talking to him and really consider him. So anyways, thanks man I appreciate the guidance.

 

[AliasNeo]

i have a p2p map for crome... it stock one if u want to look at it

 

[xxsenceo89x]

so a z6 block with a y8 head is half a tooth off or " 4.75* "
does it need to be a couple degrees advanced or retarded?

 

[RKSskier]

any block with the y8 head has the same issue. stock y8 runs at 12 degrees idle, so thats a good place to try and get it to, 93 turbo said he has been ok running a little more timing at idle if getting 12 was hard. So run 12 or whatever your gunna run in the idle in the maps, then adjust the base timing to the same with a timing light. And just expect to run less timing than a z6 by quite a bit. Really it should be tuned on a dyno for timing. It sounds like many big tuners believe that the obd2 code reads quite differently so the p2p maps are way off, however using the z6 maps can be a great way to put alot of unneeded stress on your motor.