My friend getting screwed by insurance/body shop

[whoopnip]

So, I'll have more details on Monday, but it seems like my friend is getting royally screwed.

Back in January of '08, my friend bought a 2005 Scion TC with 56k miles private party for $9800. It was a pretty good deal, as I believe the car was worth about $11,000. He checked it out pretty well, and had a mechanic look at it, and it all seemed good. It had been in both a front and rear end accident, but the repairs had been done pretty well and the only grievances were some things not fitting together just quite right. Overall, the TC looked to be in good condition.

Just last Wednesday, he hit a patch of ice and spun into a tree. He got it towed to a body shop by mid-day Thursday. After checking it out, the body shop tells him that his accident caused him $1000 or so of damage. Not too bad. But, as the body shop also shared with him, they found $8000 of cosmetic damage from previous accidents. Because of that, the insurance company says as he bought the TC with that damage, it was only worth $3000 when he bought it, and now that it has a total of $9000 of damage, the car is totaled.

Sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me. He'd be perfectly happy if insurance just covered the $1000 it would cost to fix the damage from his accident, but so far they haven't been willing to do that.

He's thinking of taking the TC to another body shop, but he's not sure if that'll help as his insurance company already has a quote now. He's also thinking if appealing the decision with the insurance company. I think that the $3000 value for the car is fraudulent, as the damage they are saying is cosmetic, yet the car looked to be in good condition. If they repaired the damage from his accident, he could probably turn around and sell it for $9,000-10,000 (as he would).

What do you guys think about all this? He's going back to the body shop on Monday.

 

[cvcrcr99]

You left out an important piece. When he bought the car, it should say on the title if the car has a rebuilt/clear/salvage/etc etc title. Was the car purchased in January 2008 with a clear title, or the other?

A car with a rebuilt/slavage title will be worth somewhere around 50%-75% less than it's clear counterpart.

Since the car is now declared total (regardless of what it was when he bought it), I seriously doubt he will be able to sell it for $9k or more. Unless he lies about it, which I do not condone.

 

[nicoyita1]

not to thread jack, but why would he pay 9000 for a car that's been involved in an accident with parts not fitting together properly? I think he set himself up for this one just by buying the car in itself. I would, however, go to another body shop to get a second opinion. Good luck with this one, hope everything turns out for the best

 

[mymmeryloss]

sounds right to me...

insurance doesnt want u driving a f**ked up car and they arent going to insure something for more than its worth..

 

[whoopnip]

You left out an important piece. When he bought the car, it should say on the title if the car has a rebuilt/clear/salvage/etc etc title. Was the car purchased in January 2008 with a clear title, or the other?

A car with a rebuilt/slavage title will be worth somewhere around 50%-75% less than it's clear counterpart.

Since the car is now declared total (regardless of what it was when he bought it), I seriously doubt he will be able to sell it for $9k or more. Unless he lies about it, which I do not condone.

The car had a clear title when he bought it. He ran a Carfax which said it had only been in one accident, and that all the damages had been repaired.

He was planning on lying about it, which I don't like either, but he's the one calling the shots: not me.

not to thread jack, but why would he pay 9000 for a car that's been involved in an accident with parts not fitting together properly? I think he set himself up for this one just by buying the car in itself. I would, however, go to another body shop to get a second opinion. Good luck with this one, hope everything turns out for the best

I think you're imagining the car worse than it is. I'll see if I can get some pictures, but by body parts not fitting together correctly, I mean 1-2 mm more of gap than it should be in some portions (kind of how our Hondas look after ten years). It only had slight dings and one bad scratch on the front bumper.

But yes, I think he should go to another body shop as well.

sounds right to me...

insurance doesnt want u driving a f**ked up car and they arent going to insure something for more than its worth..

But it wasn't f**ked up. I would have said the car looked 90% new.

 

[mymmeryloss]

insurance companies dont look at it like that..

if there was any structural damage they will want to total it out.

just like a lot of cars get totaled if the core support is damaged.

they want the car to be original parts or atleast original frame/structure.

if the car was in a front and rear collision at een 10 mph, the chances of having structural damage are almost 100% likely.

i say ur friend should be lucky the car wasnt totalled out..

 

[got traction]

. If they repaired the damage from his accident, he could probably turn around and sell it for $9,000-10,000 (as he would).

no one in their right mind would buy a salvage title TC for 9k

 

[253eg]

no one in their right mind would buy a TC

Fixed.

 

[whoopnip]

insurance companies dont look at it like that..

if there was any structural damage they will want to total it out.

just like a lot of cars get totaled if the core support is damaged.

they want the car to be original parts or atleast original frame/structure.

if the car was in a front and rear collision at een 10 mph, the chances of having structural damage are almost 100% likely.

i say ur friend should be lucky the car wasnt totalled out..

The frame is 100% ok. They say that almost all of the body panels need to be replaced for cosmetic reasons, but they look visually fine.

And they are saying it's totaled.

no one in their right mind would buy a salvage title TC for 9k

Exactly, nobody in their right mind. But there are a lot of dumb people in the car buying world...

 

[got traction]

Fixed.

 

[PhntmSk8r]

sounds right to me...

insurance doesnt want u driving a f**ked up car and they arent going to insure something for more than its worth..

Ding ding.


It doesn't matter what body shop he takes it to, his insurance now knows there is what is actually considered "prior" damage. I work in a body shop, and when people like you come in it's quite hysterical. You've got a lot to learn.

If there is prior damage to a vehicle, and it's been claimed through insurance before, but not fixed properly then the insurance company has that on file and a new agent/insurance company can trace that cars vin number back and see when/where/if it was wrecked and when/where/if it was fixed.

If it was NOT fixed properly then the car has 'prior damage' and any panel that has prior on it is (more or less) not covered by insurance because it was not fixed the first time. It's like trying to get insurance to fix a dent that they already paid out on to fix once, it doesn't work that way.

Your friends not getting 'screwed' by insurance/body shop. He screwed himself by buying a wrecked car.
PERIOD.

Car's will NOT total if there is structural damage to them, plain and simple. Dependent on the vehicle, and what the salvage market is on the given vehicle depends on how much it takes to total it. For instance, here in Colorado Toyota 4x4's hold value like no other. We put a frame under one, a bedside, cab corner, roof door, fender, and a few misc. other parts. It was on a 01 Tacoma; $10,500 estimate/repair order and the truck booked at about $14000.

Usually insurance companies will repair a vehicle up to 75% of the value, however some of the cheaper POS cars will total out much easier (sometimes even as low as 20% of their book value). You should also note; Insurance does NOT care how much you paid for the car, or how much you think its worth. Insurance companies value cars off of NADA value (which is averaged every 6 months on what similar cars in your area are actually selling for) and salvage value (how much insurance can sell them for in "totaled" condition). The TC in the case is totaled because it's not worth what you think its worth, it will cost insurance more to fix it than it will to pay out on it, then sell it at auction; do the math.

Say you have the following:
$9000 repair estimate (minus your $500 deductable), that's $8500 out of insurance to fix your already POS car.
So instead they total it, which brings them to this:

They payout on it, lets say $10500, then they turn around and sell the car at auction for $6000.

This means instead of costing them $8500 to fix an already (once) f**ked up car, it only cost them $4500 to pay out on your wrecked car and just get out of it. This saved them nearly half the money, and they can still raise your rates to get MORE money out of you. Insurance companies know how to due business.

It's painfully simple when you know how it actually works.

 

[NOFX]

The car had a clear title when he bought it. He ran a Carfax which said it had only been in one accident, and that all the damages had been repaired.

He was planning on lying about it, which I don't like either, but he's the one calling the shots: not me.

I think you're imagining the car worse than it is. I'll see if I can get some pictures, but by body parts not fitting together correctly, I mean 1-2 mm more of gap than it should be in some portions (kind of how our Hondas look after ten years). It only had slight dings and one bad scratch on the front bumper.

But yes, I think he should go to another body shop as well.

But it wasn't f**ked up. I would have said the car looked 90% new.

Your friend sounds like a d-bag, so I don't feel too upset about this.

But yes, he bought a car that sounds like it should have been totaled before.

PhntmSk8r got it right.

Let them total out the car and get another car. I can't imagine this TC holds that much sentimental value. If it did then he'd be getting it fixed out of pocket, no claim, just to be able to keep it.

 

[whoopnip]

If there is prior damage to a vehicle, and it's been claimed through insurance before, but not fixed properly then the insurance company has that on file and a new agent/insurance company can trace that cars vin number back and see when/where/if it was wrecked and when/where/if it was fixed.

If it was NOT fixed properly then the car has 'prior damage' and any panel that has prior on it is (more or less) not covered by insurance because it was not fixed the first time. It's like trying to get insurance to fix a dent that they already paid out on to fix once, it doesn't work that way.

The thing is that this cosmetic damage was never filed through insurance before. It was only discovered now by this one body shop.

Your friends not getting 'screwed' by insurance/body shop. He screwed himself by buying a wrecked car.
PERIOD.

I guess I still have to get you guys some pictures, but this car was not wrecked. I would say that it looks to be in significantly better condition than my Civic, which has never been in an accident and only has two noticeable dents. It just seems strange to me that when a car looks to be in good condition, how it can have $9000 of cosmetic damage. It would be a completely different story if it was safety related damage, but we're talking damage that's purely aesthetic.

Your friend sounds like a d-bag, so I don't feel too upset about this...
Let them total out the car and get another car. I can't imagine this TC holds that much sentimental value. If it did then he'd be getting it fixed out of pocket, no claim, just to be able to keep it.

You act like he has piles of cash sitting around. He only has $4000 to his name, and goes back to school in two and a half weeks. He hasn't been able to find a job at school thus far, and needs a lot of that $4000 for school expenses. I've suggested that, worst case scenario, he takes the $3000 insurance will give him for the totaled car and buy something cheap to get him from A to B until he can make some more money.

Yes, it would be quite the d-bag move to sell off that car to some unknowing person. I would never do that, and I was actually shocked that he would: that's not like him. I'm not even sure that he would, he might just be panicked and stressed out over the whole deal, so not thinking very rationally.

when people like you come in it's quite hysterical.

I'm glad you find amusement in others' naive and misfortune.

I understand you're trying to help, and I thank you for that. You've just come off as a bit pompous.

 

[PhntmSk8r]

I'm glad you find amusement in others' naive and misfortune.

I understand you're trying to help, and I thank you for that. You've just come off as a bit pompous.

And you came off ignorant to the reality of things, you're friend (or you, whoever it is i dont really care) is NOT getting screwed.

Take what you learned here, and apply it. Let them total the POS.

 

[whoopnip]

you're friend (or you, whoever it is i dont really care)

Like I would own a Toyota.

 

[whoopnip]

So new update, the cosmetic damage they were referring to was under the body panels and bumpers (and so therefore not visible without removing them) but had no safety issues. They also reassessed his damages to be $3000 less than they were.

So now insurance is offering to give him $6000 or $4500 and the car with no repairs. He hasn't decided which option to take. Since almost everything is good on the car except that damage and a little front end (but engine and trans are totally fine, not sure about the radiator but I don't think it was damaged), it would be more profitable to keep the car, but finding somewhere to put it while selling the parts is the issue.

 

[Aaron.]

sounds like he got what was coming to him

 

[raz18]

its called prior damage son! just like it has been very well explained to you earlier in the thread. insurance will pay for what they owe.. that measn the loss that just occured and the dmgs that resulted. not prior dmg that had been there before.

 

[knightxrider1]

sk8r, thanks for the quick ins run down, i never knew the math worked like that.