Illegals hurting more of our own people..

[whoopnip]

f**k you all BUNCH OF KKK'Z MOTHERFUCKERS
I WISH TO SEE U f**kERS WORKING UR ASS OFF ON DA FIELDS WENZ HELLA HOT, MAN f**k YOU ALL, NOT KUZ ONE OF THEM DO STUPID s**t MEANS ALL R DA SAME, SO f**k YOU GUYS!!!!!!!!!!


N THIZ PAGE ITS ABOUT CIVIC N-E FKN WAYS
f**k U ALL FKN KKK'Z BITCK ASS MAFUCKERZ

When you get angry and ramble you're not helping your side. Try collecting your thoughts and finding research to support you, then come back. We're trying to have a practical discussion here.

 

[vjf915]

As I said before, you can't do that to the ones that are already here.

I actually took the time to read through the book you just posted You seem like you are very informed. And although we disagree, somewhat, on our opinions, I commend you on not being ignorant on the topic of your opinion. I did not expect someone to take the stand you took, and be very articulate, and overall knowledgeable. So I do commend you on that.

However, just wanted to point out one thing. We could deal with the immigrants already here. Ignorance is not a defense for breaking a law. Therefore one can not say that they did not know it was a law when they committed the act. That being said, it is the act of BEING here that is illegal, they are constantly breaking the law. Its not like a robbery or a murder, where once they commit the crime its done, and if the law changes they are punished with the lesser of the two penalties. In this instance, they are CONSTANTLY breaking the law. Therefore it would be very reasonable to release a notice of some sorts informing the public that ANYONE found to be here illegally would be tried in court, and that the law would be put in effect on a certain date. After that date, anyone found to be an illegal alien could be tried.

Example. Lets say a notice was released a month ago, and the law put into effect tomorrow. After the law is put in place, anyone here without the proper papers IS breaking the law, and can be charged accordingly.

 

[MR99si]

f**k you all BUNCH OF KKK'Z MOTHERFUCKERS
I WISH TO SEE U f**kERS WORKING UR ASS OFF ON DA FIELDS WENZ HELLA HOT, MAN f**k YOU ALL, NOT KUZ ONE OF THEM DO STUPID s**t MEANS ALL R DA SAME, SO f**k YOU GUYS!!!!!!!!!!


N THIZ PAGE ITS ABOUT CIVIC N-E FKN WAYS
f**k U ALL FKN KKK'Z BITCK ASS MAFUCKERZ

 

[oc_civic]

Yes, I agree that stopping more than half of illegal immigrants would be a good thing. I don't like illegal immigrants being here not paying taxes either. I'm not sure if I got that across well enough. What I'm trying to convince you of is the method of reducing the number of illegal immigrants.

That being said, due to the cost of securing the border versus its effectiveness, I don't think it's worth it. If we had a surplus, or even a small debt, I'd say, sure, go for it. But the gross national debt is now over $12 trillion, and rapidly rising. With a debt like that, it's difficult for me to support costly programs unless I am convinced they are completely necessary and there is no better alternative.

Not to mention, we keep mentioning the southern border. The number of terrorists entering the northern border is far greater. Even if we reduced the number coming through the southern border, we'd still have the much larger amounts coming through the airports and through the northern border. If you suggest to heavily secure the northern border, well, that would be even more expensive, and probably wouldn't help our relations with Canada.

the cost to secure our border(s) is worth EVERY cent.. the cost is irrelevant.. and to be blunt again YOU speculate.. we BOTH speculate.. the truth is NO ONE knows EXACTLY what it would take to actually secure the border... the border to the south represents SEVERAL problems.. illegals.. drug traffickers.. TERRORISTS... all things i do NOT want in OUR country...

I did not say I wanted to reward illegal activity. You once again bend my words and skim over my argument. What I believe to be best would be to make the naturalization process easier for everyone. That way the illegal immigrants that are here can become citizens.

Unless you refer to my idea to give social security cards to illegal immigrants and help them through the naturalization process. Well, this would allow them to pay taxes, and we would not be rewarding them, but just guiding them through the same process everyone else has to do.

foreigner wants to come into America for a "better life"..
they skip the CORRECT LEGAL process, and instead take the ILLEGAL route..
your solution.. make them citizens..

I call bullshit.. the solution is to get them the f**k out of the country.. and KEEP them out...

Yes, I do realize that it takes only small amounts of terrorists to do large things. But that does not mean that large numbers of terrorists will do lots of large things.

With a few hundred (at the maximum) terrorists coming through the southern border, and many more coming in via the other passageways, we have not had an incident as grim as September, 11th. I'm not saying that something similar or something worse can not happen again, I'm just saying it hasn't. What I am trying to convey is that every 20 terrorists does not equal a September, 11th.

Yes, any one terrorist can commit great acts of terror. That does not mean they all do.

Also, how are you going to stop one terrorist from entering the country? No matter how much you secure the borders, the airports, the ports, and the coastlines, terrorists will always get in. That is not to say that we shouldn't try to prevent terrorists from entering the country, because we should.

What I am trying to say is that your argument that there are a relatively small number of terrorists entering the southern border, so we should heavily secure the southern border, is moot. Many more enter from the other passageways, so we should focus more on securing those if you're trying to stop terrorists.

ONE terrorist is enough.. we are fighting a war that has cost us hundreds of billions of dollars in an effort to stamp out terrorism... with far less funding you could secure the borders.. NO ONE deserves to just be handed citizenship.. it is something you must work for..

They have not had fair warning that we would kill them. Nobody has told them that they would be killed for entering the country illegally.

Setting aside that I think death is a far too radical punishment, especially without a trial, it is in fact unconstitutional to suddenly lay the death punishment on them. That is called a ex post facto law, and is unconstitutional for the federal government by Article 1, Section 9 of the Constitution and for the states by Article 1, Section 10 of the Constitution. Even if you suggest to amend the Constitution to allow this, there is no way you could ever garner enough support to change such a fundamental part of our legal system.

Now that leaves all the future illegal immigrants. To make a law which allowed one to shoot an illegal immigrant without a trial would also be unconstitutional. Every person, before he or she is convicted of a crime, must have a trial, even if he or she is not a citizen. Also, they may not be tried in military tribunals as long as civilian courts are available. Check ex parte Milligan on that one.

Killing them on the spot would also be in violation of the Declaration of Non-Nationals (1985). You may want to read the document. You can find it here. In case you are too lazy or busy, here is the most relevant excerpt. It is from Article 5, Section 1.

"1. Aliens shall enjoy, in accordance with domestic law and subject to the relevant international obligation of the State in which they are present, in particular the following rights:

(a) The right to life and security of person; no alien shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest or detention; no alien shall be deprived of his or her liberty except on such grounds and in accordance with such procedures as are established by law;"

The point that I am trying to make is that it doesn't matter if you think killing all the illegal immigrants is best for the country. It is so incredibly illegal. Even if you think that's what we should do, it does not matter unless we can do it. And so, your argument is invalid.

Let's save some time here. Even if you amend your argument to say that we should put them all through trials (with the death sentence being the result), both the ones that are here and the ones coming in, it still doesn't work. As I said before, you can't do that to the ones that are already here. As for the ones coming in, it seems very likely that any law saying that their punishment must be the death sentence would be ruled unconstitutional. First of all, the death penalty has been left for the states to decide upon. Forcing them all to adopt the death penalty just doesn't work. Secondly, even if that went through, it is likely that a majority of the Supreme Court would deem that cruel and unusual punishment. Even if somehow this became a legal reality, that would be a huge, time consuming, and expensive legal burden to add to the court system.



I know you weren't taking to me, but I just want to say I agree with these points. I too would like to decrease the number of illegal immigrants in this country, and recognize the damage that they do. Just wanted to make that clear.

SURE they are due a fair trail...

are you here legally?
NO
guilty...

the end.. no bullshit 5 year trial filled with absurd appeal processes, that stretch everything out for YEARS...

the problem is simple...

Illegals come into the country.. and rob resources.. and hurt our people. this is FACT..
the current solutions we have in place don't do it...
so we need something far more aggressive to keep these criminals out of our nation..

 

[sick-vic]

Oc Civic U Still A Lil b***h I Dont Give A f**k I Am Mexican N I'll Support Ma People All Da Way I Dont Give A f**k What All U Guys Say

Still This Ting Was Made To Talk About Cars Not Illegals
Go To Other Fkn Web Side If U Wanna Talk About Thiz s**t Kuz Thiz s**t Just Make Me Fkn Mad

 

[vjf915]

Oh no, god forbid we made a member with 2 posts mad This is the off-topic section, so you can GO f**k YOURSELF. Because simply put, if you dont like the topic, dont post in the thread.

You are exactly the piece of scumbag trash that keeps the politicians from doing the right thing. Just because they are "your people" born from the same nation gives them absolutely no right to be here without going through the proper process. Yet people like you b***h and moan and complain like a little f**king girl who didnt get that barbie doll for christmas, about how "unfair" it is. Well I have one thing to say to that: f**k you, its not a problem America is the cause of, therefore it is not a problem that Americans should have to be burdened with. If you are so concerned about "your" people, then why dont you go back to "your country" and fix the problem there, because we dont f**king want you here.

 

[RonJ]

Oc Civic U Still A Lil b***h I Dont Give A f**k I Am Mexican N I'll Support Ma People All Da Way I Dont Give A f**k What All U Guys Say

Still This Ting Was Made To Talk About Cars Not Illegals
Go To Other Fkn Web Side If U Wanna Talk About Thiz s**t Kuz Thiz s**t Just Make Me Fkn Mad

Intelligently debate your opposition to the discussion in a mature and civil way or simply don't post in this thread. This is a site rule, though some relaxing of the rules is generally allowed in the Off Topic forum. If you are angered by any points made here and can't keep the conversation civil, then simply refrain from coming to the thread. It's as simple as that.

 

[Mr. Jollypants]

Oc Civic U Still A Lil b***h I Dont Give A f**k I Am Mexican N I'll Support Ma People All Da Way I Dont Give A f**k What All U Guys Say

Still This Ting Was Made To Talk About Cars Not Illegals
Go To Other Fkn Web Side If U Wanna Talk About Thiz s**t Kuz Thiz s**t Just Make Me Fkn Mad

Keep your insults up and you won't have to worry about seeing the posts since you'll be banned.

You are the exact reason why California is in the shape it's in. We spend billions of dollars to educate, provide your healthcare, pay for your car accidents, and translate all of our documents and phone menus to Spanish. If you can't understand English, then GTFO. This is America, our language is ENGLISH.

 

[bizoneoeh]

I think you idiots are even more stupid than that f**king retard for falling into his bullshit!

 

[oc_civic]

Oc Civic U Still A Lil b***h I Dont Give A f**k I Am Mexican N I'll Support Ma People All Da Way I Dont Give A f**k What All U Guys Say

Still This Ting Was Made To Talk About Cars Not Illegals
Go To Other Fkn Web Side If U Wanna Talk About Thiz s**t Kuz Thiz s**t Just Make Me Fkn Mad

good go support them in Mexico.. where you belong... maybe that explains why you have NO concept of the English language...

spell check: it helps get your point across without sounding like an uneducated donkey..

you might want to stay out of the lounge if you are this sensitive...

 

[bizoneoeh]

good go support them in Mexico.. where you belong... maybe that explains why you have NO concept of the English language...

spell check: it helps get your point across without sounding like an uneducated donkey..

you might want to stay out of the lounge if you are this sensitive...

mexico doesn't even wat his sorry ass!






and for real sick-vic!... quit making the rest of us look bad! pinche perra!

 

[NYGraFFit1]

Oc Civic U Still A Lil b***h I Dont Give A f**k I Am Mexican N I'll Support Ma People All Da Way I Dont Give A f**k What All U Guys Say

Still This Ting Was Made To Talk About Cars Not Illegals
Go To Other Fkn Web Side If U Wanna Talk About Thiz s**t Kuz Thiz s**t Just Make Me Fkn Mad

Loco pero tu te siente bien? tu ta peliando con uno de lo jefe de ete cartel Llamado el Club de los civics, A ti te apesta la vida eh?

 

[sick-vic]

Loco pero tu te siente bien? tu ta peliando con uno de lo jefe de ete cartel Llamado el Club de los civics, A ti te apesta la vida eh?

no hay problema kompa itz ok



i wont even come to thiz topic no more its just dumb

 

[RonJ]

This NY Times article that appeared today seems relevant:

Obama to Send 1,200 Guard Troops to Mexico Border

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/us/26border.html?hp

 

[sick-vic]

mexico doesn't even wat his sorry ass!






and for real sick-vic!... quit making the rest of us look bad! pinche perra!

otro guey jejejejeje

 

[whoopnip]

I actually took the time to read through the book you just posted You seem like you are very informed. And although we disagree, somewhat, on our opinions, I commend you on not being ignorant on the topic of your opinion. I did not expect someone to take the stand you took, and be very articulate, and overall knowledgeable. So I do commend you on that.

^^ That's good that you read it. Knowledge is power, man. And thank you for recognizing my side of the argument, even if you don't agree. I can see where you guys are coming from, even if I don't agree.

However, just wanted to point out one thing. We could deal with the immigrants already here. Ignorance is not a defense for breaking a law. Therefore one can not say that they did not know it was a law when they committed the act. That being said, it is the act of BEING here that is illegal, they are constantly breaking the law. Its not like a robbery or a murder, where once they commit the crime its done, and if the law changes they are punished with the lesser of the two penalties. In this instance, they are CONSTANTLY breaking the law.

That is true, I didn't think of it that way. And yeah, I think that would be held up in court, so I agree with what you're saying.

Therefore it would be very reasonable to release a notice of some sorts informing the public that ANYONE found to be here illegally would be tried in court, and that the law would be put in effect on a certain date. After that date, anyone found to be an illegal alien could be tried.

Example. Lets say a notice was released a month ago, and the law put into effect tomorrow. After the law is put in place, anyone here without the proper papers IS breaking the law, and can be charged accordingly.

Are you referring to using the death sentence? Because if not, then what you're describing is already the reality. They can already be tried for being here illegally.

If you're referring to making the death sentence the penalty for being guilty of the crime, then my previous argument still stands.

So it would be helpful if you clarify what you mean here.

the cost to secure our border(s) is worth EVERY cent.. the cost is irrelevant.. and to be blunt again YOU speculate.. we BOTH speculate.. the truth is NO ONE knows EXACTLY what it would take to actually secure the border... the border to the south represents SEVERAL problems.. illegals.. drug traffickers.. TERRORISTS... all things i do NOT want in OUR country...

The cost is irrelevant? The cost is completely relevant. Yes, I recognize illegal immigrants as a problem our country has, but it is not our biggest problem. It's simply not worth throwing large amounts of money at, especially with how ineffective securing our borders is. Yes, it would keep out most of the illegal immigrants that are coming in by border hopping, but it would not stop the illegal immigrants that are here by overstaying visas, and may coerce others to come into the country by different methods. It would also not do anything about the illegal immigrants that are already here.

Most people are ignorant about how big of a budget crisis we are in. Our government is in heavy debt and is rapidly (and the rate is increasingly rapidly) accumulating more. At this rate we can definitely not afford to bring on new, costly, ineffective programs.

foreigner wants to come into America for a "better life"..
they skip the CORRECT LEGAL process, and instead take the ILLEGAL route..
your solution.. make them citizens..

I call bullshit.. the solution is to get them the f**k out of the country.. and KEEP them out...

Once again, you ignore my argument and generalize on what you think I am saying. I am not suggesting to automatically grant them citizenship. I am suggesting that we get them all to pay taxes immediately, and we assist them in gaining citizenship, but they will still have to go through the same process every other immigrant would.

I also suggest to make the immigration process more accessible for all immigrants, as the difficulty and quotas of our current system is a major factor in the number of illegal immigrants in this country.

If you keep ignoring my arguments, I'm going to just have to start posting in response "see earlier post" and provide the number of my post with the relevant information. If you don't listen to me, you are wasting my time.

ONE terrorist is enough.. we are fighting a war that has cost us hundreds of billions of dollars in an effort to stamp out terrorism... with far less funding you could secure the borders.. NO ONE deserves to just be handed citizenship.. it is something you must work for..

You will never be able to stop all terrorists from entering the country. It is simply not possible. And as I have said earlier, most terrorists come in through our airports anyway.

The problem is that it is almost impossible to detect most terrorists. Not every terrorist that comes into the country is carrying eighty pounds of explosives. Most of them just seem like a typical person.

Also, and I am neither supporting nor condemning the war on terror by saying this, but the purpose of the war is not to just keep Americans living in the continental U.S. safe. The purpose of the war is to rid the world of terrorism. The United States has not been isolationist for a long time. Even if you don't care about people in other countries, there's still the case of the non-continental U.S (Hawaii, Alaska, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, etc.), and Americans living or visiting overseas. Securing our borders would do nothing for them, as far as safety from terrorism is concerned.

And this is just nit-picking, but if you're born here, then you're basically just handed citizenship. You don't really have to work for it.

SURE they are due a fair trail...

are you here legally?
NO
guilty...

the end.. no bullshit 5 year trial filled with absurd appeal processes, that stretch everything out for YEARS...

the problem is simple...

Illegals come into the country.. and rob resources.. and hurt our people. this is FACT..
the current solutions we have in place don't do it...
so we need something far more aggressive to keep these criminals out of our nation..

Are you suggesting we use some sort of modified, streamlined legal system for the trials for illegal immigrants? This is also illegal (and any law allowing it would be unconstitutional), as they have the right to the same legal system everyone else has.

 

[sick-vic]

People like you make white people hate me and im not even Mexican. So f**k YOU!

You support your people all way huh?

Let me guess. you're also the type that drives around with a huge Mexican flag on your independence day right?

The same dumb f**k who blast this Mexican music at whatever time wherever, right?

The same dumbfuck who points fingers at others rather then yourself.


You're in for some f**king hard ass times you ghetto piece of s**t.
You're probably the type that is proud of being ghetto.

got dat right hater lmao

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Hecz]

got dat right hater lmao

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

You're absolutely right, I do hate your kind.

I really hope you're an illegal.

 

[oc_civic]

The cost is irrelevant? The cost is completely relevant. Yes, I recognize illegal immigrants as a problem our country has, but it is not our biggest problem. It's simply not worth throwing large amounts of money at, especially with how ineffective securing our borders is. Yes, it would keep out most of the illegal immigrants that are coming in by border hopping, but it would not stop the illegal immigrants that are here by overstaying visas, and may coerce others to come into the country by different methods. It would also not do anything about the illegal immigrants that are already here.

Most people are ignorant about how big of a budget crisis we are in. Our government is in heavy debt and is rapidly (and the rate is increasingly rapidly) accumulating more. At this rate we can definitely not afford to bring on new, costly, ineffective programs.

look.. let me try to break it down for you as I see it..

Young LEGAL US citizens are born into this nation..
When i was younger these people did s**t jobs that illegals now do..
My first job ever in my life was moving hay bails on a farm.. it was hard s**t work.. but i got paid..
As you grew up you moved on to slightly better jobs.. maybe right after college or during college.. you get the idea..
These jobs were sales jobs.. hard manual labor.. etc..
people who graduated college went on to work professional jobs..

this system created a lower middle and upper class..

THEN you introduce a s**t ton of illegals who are willing to live in your shed and do every imaginable task for $5 a week.. greedy business men would employ them as fast as they could find them... pay some highschool kid minimum wadge to pick lettuce? now i don't have to.. i can hire Jose for $9 a week.. then construction companies caught on.. replacing yet MORE American workers..

what this does to our economic system is SEVERAL fold..

1) it devalues labor, by taking people who working without the burden of taxation, without anything to lose, and introducing them into the work force..

2) it removes available jobs for REAL Americans..

3) it puts an unjust strain on our schools, hospitals, police stations, etc.. the reason i say unjust is you have additional people, but lack of tax revenue..

4) the lack of tax revenue pointed out in "3" now becomes the burden of hard working Americans..

5) they commit crime, which hurts us in MANY areas...

as far as the problems go.. you could go on for DAYS.. there is a REASON that MOST countries don't tolerate illegal immigration.. and that reason? BECAUSE IT f**kS s**t UP... so while you see it as not really a big pressing deal.. i see it as a DRIVING force PARTIALLY behind our poor economic situation..

to recap..
LOSS OF AMERICAN JOBS
INCREASED TAX BURDEN
CRIME
DEVALUING AMERICAN WORK
LOSS OF VALUABLE COSTLY RESOURCES

look its NOT just a bunch of guys moving to another area.. it is FAR more complicated than that and has HUGE ECONOMIC impact.. SOME impact that people don't even consider..

Once again, you ignore my argument and generalize on what you think I am saying. I am not suggesting to automatically grant them citizenship. I am suggesting that we get them all to pay taxes immediately, and we assist them in gaining citizenship, but they will still have to go through the same process every other immigrant would.

no point.. they are lawless scumbags.. they have already proven that.. they deserve NO consideration.. if anything they should be BANNED from EVER coming back..

I also suggest to make the immigration process more accessible for all immigrants, as the difficulty and quotas of our current system is a major factor in the number of illegal immigrants in this country.

If you keep ignoring my arguments, I'm going to just have to start posting in response "see earlier post" and provide the number of my post with the relevant information. If you don't listen to me, you are wasting my time.

they have quotas in place so we don't end up like downtown China.. maybe YOU want to live in some over populated s**t hole.. i do not.. you NEED to understand that only SO many resources are available..
I STRONGLY suggest you watch this video and TRY to understand it.. EVEN IF ITS BIAS.. even if the numbers are inflated.. the concept is what matters..

[YOUTUBE="look"]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/n7WJeqxuOfQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/n7WJeqxuOfQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

YOU CAN NOT SAVE THE f**king WORLD.. if you offered asylum here to EVERYONE in the world who wanted to come here, you would have to sweep a walkway to your car in the morning because people would literally be in the streets..

You will never be able to stop all terrorists from entering the country. It is simply not possible. And as I have said earlier, most terrorists come in through our airports anyway.

The problem is that it is almost impossible to detect most terrorists. Not every terrorist that comes into the country is carrying eighty pounds of explosives. Most of them just seem like a typical person.

Also, and I am neither supporting nor condemning the war on terror by saying this, but the purpose of the war is not to just keep Americans living in the continental U.S. safe. The purpose of the war is to rid the world of terrorism. The United States has not been isolationist for a long time. Even if you don't care about people in other countries, there's still the case of the non-continental U.S (Hawaii, Alaska, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, etc.), and Americans living or visiting overseas. Securing our borders would do nothing for them, as far as safety from terrorism is concerned.

this is a good example of stupid talk if you have never encountered it before.. by your logic of not being able to stop everyone all the time.. i assume you leave your front door unlocked and propped open.. maybe leave your money sitting on your dashboard with the car door open.. leave the car running as well? the point is while you can NOT stop everyone.. it is STUPID to suggest that fact matters.. you can not IGNORE a problem simply because you can not stop it..

Are you suggesting we use some sort of modified, streamlined legal system for the trials for illegal immigrants? This is also illegal (and any law allowing it would be unconstitutional), as they have the right to the same legal system everyone else has.

THEY SHOULD NOT BE COVERED UNDER THE CONSTITUTION THEY ARE NOT f**king CITIZENS.. they are dirt ball scum bags who circumvent the fundamental laws of our nation.. they ROB CHEAT STEAL AND KILL.. they deserve the same back..

its like you want to f**king argue that SOME illegals come here just to work and be nice.. guess what.. I DONT GIVE A f**k.. they are collectively breaking our laws and INSULTING the MILLIONS who have fought LONG AND HARD TO COME HERE LEGALLY..

and while my citizenship was just given to me my FAMILY CAME HERE LEGALLY.. struggled VERY HARD through TOUGH TIMES... so i fail to see how that is relevant in ANY way..

 

[oc_civic]

People like you make white people hate me and im not even Mexican. So f**k YOU!

You support your people all way huh?

Let me guess. you're also the type that drives around with 10 huge Mexican flag on your independence day right?

The same dumb f**k who blast this Mexican music at whatever time wherever, right?

The same dumbfuck who points fingers at others rather then yourself.


You're in for some f**king hard ass times you ghetto piece of s**t.
You're probably the type that is proud of being ghetto.

for the record.. i do not HATE you..