If this doesn't change your mind i don't know what will...

[Hecz]

ugh.. the situation is that if given the opportunity to work.. and you CHOOSE not to.. and then commit crime INSTEAD of working.. YES i would rather have those assholes locked up.. given the two options.. given that my dime would pay for it either way.. 1) locked up after choosing crime OVER work or 2)leaching off of the system sitting in a home free as could be.. then yeah in THOSE two situations i would rather END welfare.. give people the option to take jobs.. and YES lock them up if they choose crime.. WHY? because people like that are scumbags.. and when you take them OFF of the street and put them in jail, it cleans up neighborhoods.. plus lets face it.. not everyone on welfare would choose crime if given the option to work..



it is black, white, brown, yellow, etc.. people who are on welfare.. while ONE ethnic group MAY show higher numbers of welfare abuse.. I am sure there are members of ALL races abusing the welfare system.. and ALL should be off of it..




when i say "welfare" I am referring to the bigger picture.. not JUST government provided welfare.. I am also referring to basically any charity type organization that is distributing aid to people in need.. welfare, salvation army, soup kitchens, free medical treatment, etc.. these are ALL resources and they are resources that are created for people in need.. stretched as thinly as possible.. remove people who do not legally belong here, and that aid can be stretched so much further..




you are right.. and while in some regards that is helpful financially it is far outweighed by the draw they create...
* use of schools, medical, etc. resources
* earning money here that is sent OUT of the country spent elsewhere
* crime
* free aid
etc..




the problem is they are ALL committing crime.. simply being here IS against the law..

and your determination of it being not a big deal because it has not effected you is a very narrow way of looking at it..

* having a loved one raped by an illegal immigrant..
* having your car TOTALED by an illegal with no insurance...
* losing out on a job to an illegal who will do it for half as much..

and so on.. the problem is NOT that US citizens don't commit crime.. they do.. the problem is even if illegal immigrants ONLY account for %15 of ALL the crime in America.. that is a HUGE number when you factor in that it is COMPLETELY avoidable.. these people have EVERY right to LEGALLY immigrate into the country.. they do not have ANY right to ILLEGALLY immigrate into the country.. immigration quotas exist to prevent squandering of resources.. they exist so that too many people do not come at one time.. thats why legal immigration is important..

I'm not scared to say black people, you know and i know, they use it and an abuse it the most.

The chartities are doing what they do best, help out humans dude.
wtf.


what free aid?? a freaking church giving them shelter??



schools?? you can not deny education to anyone, but only here in america

who the hell would not sent money back to their loved ones? lol!

No illegal will take my job, trust me. if your worried about an illegal taking your job buddy, then i really don't know what to tell you man, you must have a bad job, because the jobs that illegals have imo are bad. i'll never have a job that illegals have because that's not for me, sorry, those are bad jobs. I guarantee you they will never take my job because, for one I am a perfectly legal citizen, that just makes me much better then them, on top of that i have skills that their third word country would of never offered to expose them to because of the simple fact that is third word. and not just that but the people i will be employed with, those professionals will have no business paying illegals half of what they pay me. not every company out there is like Wal Mart man.

If a loved one get's rapped by an illegal, i will first cry then hope justice is served.
the same thing i would if a loved one is rapped by a legal.

if my car get's totaled by an illegal, i will have my full coverage insurance will take care of that.

 

[nicoyita1]

From a legal pov: Ultimately, they shouldn't be here. They need to leave. For them to be here is illegal simply because the law says so. I can't just go in my neighbors house and help myself to a glass of water without permission. That's trespassing and I'd be rightfully arrested. Even if I went in there, helped myself to a glass of water and cleaned his bathrooms, I'd still be rightfully arrested. I simply shouldn't be in my neighbors house without permission. And cleaning his bathrooms still doesn't make it ok.

 

[Voltio]

I'm not sure if all "illegals" manage to land jobs this way, but I know plenty of them who work using a stolen SS #, which constitutes identity theft. It's one crime after another. I would like to see if any of the morons who are all gung-ho about letting them stay here and that they are great to have around would still sing the same song if they were the victim of identity theft by an illegal.

 

[Voltio]

The chartities are doing what they do best, help out humans dude.
wtf.

Charity starts at home

schools?? you can not deny education to anyone, but only here in "america"

Public education... which is funded by legal, tax paying citizens. All these illegals are contributing to the growing number of students per class.

No illegal will take my job, trust me. if your worried about an illegal taking your job buddy, then i really don't know what to tell you man, you must have a bad job, because the jobs that illegals have imo are bad. i'll never have a job that illegals have because that's not for me, sorry, those are bad jobs. I guarantee you they will never take my job because, for one I am a perfectly legal citizen, that just makes me much better then them, on top of that i have skills that their third word country would of never offered to expose them to because of the simple fact that is third word. and not just that but the people i will be employed with, those professionals will have no business paying illegals half of what they pay me. not every company out there is like Wal Mart man.

So you think no illegal will take your job because you've got an education??
What happens when an illegal gets a free education? Because according to you, nobody should be denied an education. So once that illegal gains the skills you posses, at your tax dollars expense, what is to stop him from applying for your job and telling your boss he'll do it at a rate less than yours?

 

[Hecz]

Charity starts at home





So you think no illegal will take your job because you've got an education??
What happens when an illegal gets a free education? Because according to you, nobody should be denied an education. So once that illegal gains the skills you posses, at your tax dollars expense, what is to stop him from applying for your job and telling your boss he'll do it at a rate less than yours?

I'm not worried about illegals taking my job, it will not happen. again, i will never be employed by someone who works with illegals.

Public education... which is funded by legal, tax paying citizens. All these illegals are contributing to the growing number of students per class.

that's CPS problem. if they can't fix it i will send my kids to schools with small class sizes

 

[Voltio]

I'm not worried about illegals taking my job, it will not happen. again, i will never be employed by someone who works with illegals.



that's CPS problem. if they can't fix it i will send my kids to schools with small class sizes

Only if you work for the federal government

and that's until Obama screws that up too


You and every other parent, therefore increasing the sizes of those small class sizes... it's a domino effect, you can run as much as you want but it will catch up with you sooner or later.

 

[Hecz]

Only if you work for the federal government

and that's until Obama screws that up too

ah, there you go.. doesn't that feel much better

 

[oc_civic]

I'm not scared to say black people, you know and i know, they use it and an abuse it the most.

no you are right... %100 correct.. but i do not just focus on "most" i focus on "all" if a white person is using government aid improperly i want them to be dealt with just as badly as a black, brown, etc.. person..

The chartities are doing what they do best, help out humans dude.
wtf.

maybe you can not relate.. but people in America.. American citizens.. are going through tough times right now.. and in many cases need aid.. and assistance.. when somebody ILLEGALLY in this country is taking from ANYWHERE that could go to assist people who are LEGALLY in this country.. then it is WRONG imo..

schools?? you can not deny education to anyone, but only here in "america"

Schools are paid for by taxes.. do you own your home? do you pay property tax? what happens is this.. the school decides how much it costs.. to house all these kids.. provide supplies for them all.. employ teachers.. pay benefits... bus them in.. etc.. ALL THIS is paid for by YOUR property taxes.. so when you have a LARGE concentration of illegals living in one central area... your budget is unfairly carried by one group of people while the other gets a free ride..

say just hypothetically the cost to school 100 children is $100 obviously not this cheap but just making it simple.. so the school passes the budget of $100 for the school year.. say that 75 people in the community are legal property holders paying taxes etc.. and 25 are here illegally... well the 75 have to absorb that additional cost to pay for those getting a free ride.. as far as education being a right... education is NOT A RIGHT.. and well even if it was it would not cover illegals since they are not here legally..

who the hell would not sent money back to their loved ones? lol!

again.. point missed.. the point is that you have a distinct difference between illegals and legals.. legal immigrants are generally here to start a new life in the country.. they will earn money within the nation and spend money within the nation.. keeping money circulating within this country.. illegals generally assume they are only here till they go home.. so the spending they do will generally be SOME here.. but much of it will be funneled OUT of the country, further reducing the amount of money our country has.. driving it closer to economical failure..

No illegal will take my job, trust me. if your worried about an illegal taking your job buddy, then i really don't know what to tell you man, you must have a bad job, because the jobs that illegals have imo are bad. i'll never have a job that illegals have because that's not for me, sorry, those are bad jobs. I guarantee you they will never take my job because, for one I am a perfectly legal citizen, that just makes me much better then them, on top of that i have skills that their third word country would of never offered to expose them to because of the simple fact that is third word. and not just that but the people i will be employed with, those professionals will have no business paying illegals half of what they pay me. not every company out there is like Wal Mart man.

I understand that.... but as I have already explained a million times.. there was a time when an honest hard working laborer could earn enough money to raise his family.. NOW these jobs have been devalued by illegals to the point that LEGAL US citizens have a hard time earning a living doing basic honest hard work.. so now they need to compete for jobs like you have.. this leaves them out in the cold.. jobless.. there are only so many jobs within a country.. if illegals take up a portion that is less for legal citizens.... this creates additional demand on welfare... so as you can see even though illlegals may not earn welfare directly.. they drive unemployment on other fronts which in turn increases the cost of welfare..

If a loved one get's rapped by an illegal, i will first cry then hope justice is served.
the same thing i would if a loved one is rapped by a legal.

if my car get's totaled by an illegal, i will have my full coverage insurance will take care of that.

the point is the CRIME is COMPLETELY preventable.. that is the point..

From a legal pov: Ultimately, they shouldn't be here. They need to leave. For them to be here is illegal simply because the law says so. I can't just go in my neighbors house and help myself to a glass of water without permission. That's trespassing and I'd be rightfully arrested. Even if I went in there, helped myself to a glass of water and cleaned his bathrooms, I'd still be rightfully arrested. I simply shouldn't be in my neighbors house without permission. And cleaning his bathrooms still doesn't make it ok.

totally logical..

I'm not sure if all "illegals" manage to land jobs this way, but I know plenty of them who work using a stolen SS #, which constitutes identity theft. It's one crime after another. I would like to see if any of the morons who are all gung-ho about letting them stay here and that they are great to have around would still sing the same song if they were the victim of identity theft by an illegal.

yet another problem created by illegals.. I have seen this first hand.. they come in here trying to get things done and then they show me their "united states drivers license" and their oddly colored social security card...


look again I am NOT saying people should NOT immigrate to America.. they SHOULD.. but i fail to see how you could SUPPORT ILLEGAL immigration.. there is NOTHING positive that comes from allowing people to sneak into the country undetected.. just f**king do it right.. follow the law.. do what needs to be done..

it is really simple..

 

[oc_civic]

it's a domino effect, you can run as much as you want but it will catch up with you sooner or later.

doesnt get much simpler that that.. you hit the nail on the head my friend!

and thats what people do NOT UNDERSTAND.. no an illegal being in this country may NEVER effect me directly.. but its all the bullshit they cause INDIRECTLY..

 

[Hecz]

schools?? you can not deny education to anyone, but only here in america

i apologize about this. yes illegals can be denied school.

 

[Hecz]

Gentlemen,

Please don't let my opinions confuse you, i don't support illegal immigration.

 

[vjf915]

From a legal pov: Ultimately, they shouldn't be here. They need to leave. For them to be here is illegal simply because the law says so. I can't just go in my neighbors house and help myself to a glass of water without permission. That's trespassing and I'd be rightfully arrested. Even if I went in there, helped myself to a glass of water and cleaned his bathrooms, I'd still be rightfully arrested. I simply shouldn't be in my neighbors house without permission. And cleaning his bathrooms still doesn't make it ok.

I love this comparison. It is on such a smaller scale, yet SO accurate.

 

[Voltio]

I love this comparison. It is on such a smaller scale, yet SO accurate.

I'd like to help myself to my neighbor's wife

 

[connies96hatchie]

if you shoot someone in the knees you MAY cripple them for a very long time, if not forever.. you will likely have to go to court and explain why you fired.. he will be there to counter all your statements saying he didnt do this.. or didnt do that.. if someone breaks into my house i will tell them ONCE to stop and get on the ground... if they do ANYTHING but that... I will more than likely fire..an attacker can close a distance of approximately 21 feet faster than you can react... so if i say "stop get on the ground" while im pointing a 12 gauge shotgun at your chest.. and you continue to move towards me.. I am going to assume that you are out of your f**king mind, or so hopped up on drugs that you have no idea what im saying.. and i will assume you are a threat.. and i WILL shoot.. in NJ in my home I am under no obligation to retreat.. shooting a knee or leg while someone is moving.. during a high stress shooting.. YEAH.. GOOD LUCK.. whoever told you that is an idiot and has IMO never been involved in a live shooting.. our firearms instructor has had me help demonstrate reaction time during some of our tactical shooting classes.. and I draw my sidearm from my holster pretty fast.. I am not the most accurate shooter.. but i can draw and hit center mass pretty fast.. well the way it would work is this.. someone was standing at my back.. ready to run AWAY from the targets.. and i had a standard silhouette target in front of me.... sidearm holstered how it normally is in my house.. you wait.. and he yells go.. when he yells go the "attacker" would run away from me.. and i would shoot to put 2 center mass (chest).. and even with KNOWING it was about to happen the "attacker" could really cover a decent distance before i hit the target.. so imagine middle of the night inside a dark house.. someone runs at you.. you are going to try to shoot someone in the legs? that is NOT good advice IMO.. now the ONLY thing you have to be concerned about is your local laws.. in NJ in the home we are under no obligation to retreat.. we can also not "over shoot" the attacker.. meaning that if i DID hit a leg or something and he dropped.. i could not walk up and like finish him execution style.. LOL but as long as they are upright.. facing me.. moving forward.. and presenting a reasonable threat.. they are getting shot and i typically either have my Glock on my hip.. or a 12 gauge shotgun sitting next to me.. both center mass at that distance would like neutralize any target.. forever.. lol just check your local laws on home defense shooting and then you will know best.. because it DOES vary from state to state..

Thankies for the advice!