Blown head gasket? Or what

Animal7296

New Member
Ok I get in my 94 ex d16z6 auto trans. It has been sitting for a while so it is cold. Starts right up and runs great. As it warms up it gets more sluggish and when it is shut off it wont start till it cools down but starts right up and has no problems. It is not overheating and it is not smoking. the overflow bottle does bubble when it it cranking when hot. I have replaced the main relay for the no start problem but it did not fix the problem.
 

Animal7296

New Member
Ok I just pulled number one spark plug and it is SOAKED with coolant. Looks like I am gunna need to do the head gasket. Any recommendations on brand or walk throughs?
 


2slo4u

wait4me
Registered VIP
Registered OG
5+ Year Member
10+ Year Member
I recommend oem gasket if the motor is still oem spec'd.
 

stateofjustin

New Member
Other things to check: The rest of your plugs, your compression in each cylinder, dry first (car warm) then with oil added through the plug hole. If you can beg borrow or steal a good leak down tester you should get a hold of it and do that check too.

This will tell you how many cylinders, what's wrong, and where. No sense in putting a head gasket on the car if the bottom end is tanked too right?

Agree w/2slo... factory gasket. Also, if you are planning on keeping this car a while get a new set of factory head bolts. They stretch on initial installation, so once they are taken out they do not stretch much if any when re-used. At the very least the head should be checked for straightness with a square and milled flat within spec before going back on.

The tests will tell you though, how much work you are gonna end up doing.

Don't agree w/2slo: no seal but the head gasket is going to get the spark plug wet with coolant consistently. Even if the coolant passage in the intake manifold was somehow leaking coolant into the intake, it would be burned off during normal combustion and you'd be left with a very clean plug and piston. Besides, the coolant passage for the intake is near #4. Nothing carrying coolant is by #1.

Good luck, I'm doing the same with mine right now... except all my tests look great so far... go figure.
 

Animal7296

New Member
Well I will get to all those other tests tomorrow. The car has only 137000 on it so I would hope the bottom end isn't "tanked" but you never know. Like I said it is not smoking and runs like a raped ape till it gets warm and then it slows down. Kinda like the brakes are being applied.
 

stateofjustin

New Member
Well, since when it gets warm the thermostat opens and coolant starts moving you are probably right on the money.

Only problem is you said you don't get clouds out of the exhaust after it warms up and bogs down, or you didn't specify exactly, too lazy to scroll up ;)

If you are sucking all that coolant it should end up somewhere... in the oil or coming out of the tailpipe. you may also want to do an HC chemical test before you take anything apart. Dump that in your coolant and it'll change color if the gasket is leaking blow-by into the cooling system. Or rent a cooling system pressurizer from a local auto place if you can and just pressurize the cooling system and see if if holds the pressure or it drops, if it drops a bunch... head gasket. Just remember not to crank it again without pulling your plugs... enough coolant in a cylinder will hydro-lock the engine and probably bend a rod.

The mechanical tests should tell you what you need to know though.
 

Animal7296

New Member
Ok here is the latest tidbits of info.

Compression:
1. 110
2. 95
3. 95
4. 115

Performed HC Test and verified exhaust going thru the cooling system. Car has not been overheated to the best of my knowledge. Should I do the head gasket and have the head checked? Or should I do an engine replacement? IF I need to do a replacement then I will have to try some of that head gasket repair crap that napa sells till the funds are saved.
 

stateofjustin

New Member
Those numbers are really low. I don't know what the spec is on the 94 EX but on the 95 DX it's 135 minimum and they are pretty similar. You did them with the car warmed up and all the spark plugs out? Did you add a teaspoon of oil to each one and do a second round? If not, do that. Add the oil one at a time right before you start testing that cylinder

If those are your 'cold/dry' or 'warm/dry' numbers, post your warm/oil added numbers too. If it changes significantly, the rings have had it and/or the cylinder is worn out. You can rebuild, or replace.

Your numbers are evenly low across the board, which suggests a few possibilities:

You have a crappy compression gauge and it's lying to you ( I borrowed one like I suggested and did mine, then I bought a Matco gauge since I used to work at the dealer, more than 15PSI difference).

BUT...

Your rings might be worn, but worn evenly.

FYI, my 95 DX has about 300K miles and my dry/cold compression is 156-179 (new is 185).

You need to do a leak-down test in a bad way if the compression numbers don't change.
 

1999-D16Y8-B4RA

New Member
5+ Year Member
I second the leakdown test. Compression test is good but there are too many variables, and the leakdown will confirm.

Even then, if it's too much of a job just to do the head gasket, you may, if you have the time and means to do it, do a major overhaul inspection if you already are doing the engine removal anyways.

On my maxima I figured that if I had the engine out on the stand, I may as well go ahead to do the WHOLE damn thing. After inspections you may find all you need are new rings, gaskets, I would do the bearings while i'm in there, both mains and rods...but again, it may not be necessary. I also replaced the camshaft and lifters.

I'll say that it's VERY time consuming though, and I ended up spending approx. $4000.00 including all new tools to do the job. It took me 2 months to complete.

If you don't have a second car though and need to drive this car, FORGET IT, don't attempt the overhaul and just buy a used motor. I would be careful spending alot of money just on the diagnosis though, ie. paying a mechanic to look at it and renting tools, as this could just go towards a used motor replacement. You could literally be wasting money that could go to a replacement.
 

stateofjustin

New Member
I did not mention that you need to have the throttle plate all the way open for the compression test. I forgot to mention that because... well I had the whole intake manifold off my car when I did it ;) If that was closed your results will be wrong for all tests.

Also, I didn't mention that a leakdown test can be tricky to do accurately. Either you need a tester that can operate at low pressures, I don't think I ran into a problem until I hit about 75 PSI. Get about 5-10 PSI past that and the engine will turn itself over and open some valves... pain in the ass =).

SO to do the leakdown:

Make sure the engine is up to temperature (careful, stuff will obviously be hot. wear some mechanics fabric gloves)

In your case, fill the coolant reserve tank until you only have a couple of inches empty space.
Get a jack and a jack-stand
Set the E-Brake (have to) and chock the rear wheels (if you can)
Loosen the driver's wheel lug nuts, just a little

Jack car from front driver's side jacking point until the wheel leaves the ground and there is room for the jack stand under the front suspension lower control arm mounting point/sub-frame. NOTE: You don't have to let the car off the jack if you are not going to be under it, but you may prefer to for your safety or peace of mind. The stand will hold the car without damage if the jack fails. Never get under a car without properly positioned jack stand(s). If you put it in the wrong spot, the car will fall and the stand will not hold it (it'll just punch a hole in the floor pan). Of course, you won't care because you'll probably be dead. If you survived, you probably would be upset about that right then.

Finish removing the lugnuts and the wheel

You will need a large ratchet or breaker bar (1/2 inch drive is best) and appropriate socket (mine is a 17mm)
There is a round area with a cutout to allow easy access to the crankshaft pulley for occasions like this one.
F that. I don't use it, I pull the whole front mudguard. That makes access SUPER easy, and allows you to inspect other stuff.

Remove all the spark plugs
Loosen the top timing belt cover bolts - DO THIS BEFORE REMOVING THE VALVE COVER
Remove the valve cover =)
Remove the upper timing belt cover
You can now see your timing marks on the camshaft sprocket
Put the car in neutral

Using your rachet or breaker bar turn the crankshaft counter clockwise (honda engines are backward from everyone else's) unti you line up with one of the marks. These marks represent TDC for every cylinder, if you are lucky you have a clear mark on the crankshaft pulley to line up with the lower timing cover 0 degree timing mark (I'm not lucky, so I did it a different way). I used a very long (12") plastic zip tie dropped into the cylinder to tell me when I was coming up to TDC and then checked to make sure my rocker arms were loose. If one side or the other is tight, you are not on the compression stroke for that cylinder. Rotate until you get all the rockers for that cylinder loose (should match the timing mark on the camshaft sprocket, which lines up with a triangle cast into the cylinder head indicating TDC). Watching the zip tie helps you determine TDC if your marks aren't clear, the second the zip tie starts to move back down you're too far and need to back up until it seems to stop moving for a degree or two... that should be TDC.

Remove the ratchet or breaker bar, I left the extension(s) and socket on the crank bolt but taking them off is safest.

You're ready to attach the tester. Read the directions thoroughly, and do a youtube search for 'leakdown test' to see some other people do it. The harbor frieght leakdown tester is probably the most popular since it's about $40. It's not terribly accurate, but as long as you keep the input pressure the same all your readings will be the same amount of inaccurate (sounds funny, but that's fine). The directions are also a little misleading, so ask if you aren't sure (the youtube videos will help with set up)

Now, here's the tricky part...

If you set up your tester properly AND the cylinder is at TDC AND you keep the pressure low enough, the engine should not turn itself over and you will get a reading. Write the reading down and the pressure you got it at (ex. 67 with 75psi input pressure). You may have to convert these numbers later if you are using a lower pressure than the gauge instructions give you a table for. We can help with that.

If you CANNOT keep the cylinder from turning over you can do one of two things:
1) Do the test at BDC just before the start of the compression stroke (valves will be closed and the piston will be all the way down.

2) Find a way to lock the flywheel/flex plate in place. Yeah... that's a bi_ch. Screw that noise... that's easy with the transmission off.

DON'T BOTHER:
1) Trying to have someone hold the engine stationary with the breaker bar or ratchet. At best you'll get false results, at worst someone will take a wrench to the face and need their jaw wired shut and plastic surgery.
2) Trying to put the car in gear to hold it. It won't.


Repeat for each cylinder. If you have a huge variation on one cylinder listen at the following places:
Throttle plate - If you hear air rushing through either you are not at TDC/BDC with the intake valves closed or you have a valve that is not seating (check to make sure the rocker arms are loose on both sides)

Exhaust pipe - (same rules as above)

Dipstick tube - If you hear air here, it's going past the rings and the gauge value will tell you how much of your potential compression is being lost through them. At 100 PSI input a value of 80PSI on the leak-down gauge would indicate 20% leak-down (this value would be acceptable on a high mileage engine (200K+)) Any more than 20% is bad and any more than 10-15% difference between cylinders is probably going to mean a rebuild of top or bottom depending on where the sound is coming from.

Use a long piece of rubber hose held up to your ear to gather the sound at these places.

Also in your case, watch the coolant reservoir for major bubbles as you do each cylinder, that will pinpoint your leak there.

Or you could pay someone to do all that sh_t for you. Let us know if you need advice or clarification on anything.

Good luck!
 


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