Mosque near ground zero

[paulx022]

I am sorry but I simply can not agree with you.. sure.. even Christians wondered the world killing in the name of god.. but guess what.. this is 2010.. and there are TWO religions left operating within the mindset of ancient times.. and they are Jews and Muslims.. MOST of the modern world.. religious or not.. has grown to be civilized.. when was the last time you picked up a news paper and read "catholic terrorist blows up Jewish school in the name of Jesus".. here let me help you.. NEVER.. the problem with Jews and Muslims is they will fight for f**king EVER over some STUPID piece of f**king s**t hole land in the middle east.. and NEITHER will EVER admit to being wrong.. and Muslims will always HATE America for supporting Israel.. so you can sit there and say this or that.. but the reality is most of the middle eastern world hates our f**king guts.. and would love nothing more than to cut your f**king head off and watch it role down the street.. while there ARE peaceful Muslims.. they are far outweighed by the majority who is willing to strap a f**king bomb to themselves to kill as many as possible.. further.. there is something genuinely wrong with Muslims.. anyone who would praise a god who was a pedophile is just not right in the head.. peaceful or not..



don't even defend that sick s**t.. any people who are so absorbed with religion that they ignore violence and pedophilia, are a worthless people.. look at the way the majority of men in the Muslim world treat women.. it is really ridiculous..

again are ALL Muslims bad.. NO.. but I find the s**t they believe in really f**king disturbing.. and I find their clinging to an old ancient world, a world that can not coexist with the modern world disturbing..

Muslims and Jews will fight FOREVER... Muslims will hate America for their support of Israel forever.. it is a lose lose situation.. keep in mind.. we are talking the majority of the Muslim world... look at all the bombs and s**t over the past couple days.. we are NOT safe..

Im starting a new religion with OC as god. everything you just said is exactly what im thinking i just cant say it in a mature intelligent way like you.

 

[Mr. Jollypants]

Im starting a new religion with OC as god. everything you just said is exactly what im thinking i just cant say it in a mature intelligent way like you.

If you want a mature intelligent religion, look into Buddhism or be an Atheist.

Christianity, Catholicism and Judaism are not mature or intelligent religions.

 

[oc_civic]

thinking that this nation was founded for religious freedom.. freedom for all.. is the school system misleading a society.. they are attempting to promote harmony.. and coexistence.. lets face it.. look at the rights of women and non whites back in early America.. this country was NOT founded on freedom.. the freedom that these people spoke so much about was freedom from the king.. these people were SERIOUS Christians.. so really when you look through history try to look at the actual history and NOT the watered down politically correct s**t you are spoon fed through liberal school systems.. I am FAR from an expert on history.. FAR FROM IT.. so what I am saying here is being said modestly with no disrespect as I am still learning as well.. but if you actually read about how people felt then.. you get a MUCH different appreciation for the climate of the times..

 

[Mr. Jollypants]

thinking that this nation was founded for religious freedom..

It was. It was founded on the basis of freedom of religion.

freedom for all.. is the school system misleading a society.. they are attempting to promote harmony.. and coexistence.. lets face it.. look at the rights of women and non whites back in early America..

That came from changes in society.

this country was NOT founded on freedom.. the freedom that these people spoke so much about was freedom from the king.. these people were SERIOUS Christians..

Congress were serious Christians.

None of the Founding Fathers were atheists. Most of the Founders were Deists, which is to say they thought the universe had a creator, but that he does not concern himself with the daily lives of humans, and does not directly communicate with humans, either by revelation or by sacred books. They spoke often of God, (Nature's God or the God of Nature), but this was not the God of the bible. They did not deny that there was a person called Jesus, and praised him for his benevolent teachings, but they flatly denied his divinity. Some people speculate that if Charles Darwin had lived a century earlier, the Founding Fathers would have had a basis for accepting naturalistic origins of life, and they would have been atheists. Most of them were stoutly opposed to the bible, and the teachings of Christianity in particular.

Yes, there were Christian men among the Founders. Just as Congress removed Thomas Jefferson's words that condemned the practice of slavery in the colonies, they also altered his wording regarding equal rights. His original wording is here in blue italics: "All men are created equal and independent. From that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable." Congress changed that phrase, increasing its religious overtones: "All men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights." But we are not governed by the Declaration of Independence-- it is a historical document, not a constitutional one.

Consider this: IF indeed the members of the First Continental Congress were all bible-believing, "God-fearing" men, would there ever have been a revolution at all?

"For rebellion as is the sin of witchcraft." 1 Samuel, 15:23

so really when you look through history try to look at the actual history and NOT the watered down politically correct s**t you are spoon fed through liberal school systems.. I am FAR from an expert on history.. FAR FROM IT..

I can tell.

so what I am saying here is being said modestly with no disrespect as I am still learning as well.. but if you actually read about how people felt then.. you get a MUCH different appreciation for the climate of the times..

I think you should do more research on the subject.

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."
—Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1758



"Ecclesiastical establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects."
—James Madison, letter to William Bradford, January 1774



"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded prospect."
—James Madison, letter to William Bradford, April 1, 1774



". . . no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."
—Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779



"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."
—Thomas Jefferson, letter, 1787



"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see, but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity, though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble. I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequences, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and observed, especially as I do not perceive that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any peculiar marks of his displeasure."
—Benjamin Franklin, letter to Ezra Stiles, March 9, 1790



"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
—Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794



"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church."
—Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794



"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind."
—Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794



"The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?"
—John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 20, 1815



"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
—Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823



"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."
—Thomas Jefferson, letter to Alexander von Humboldt, 1813



"Man is fed with fables through life, and leaves it in the belief he knows something of what has been passing, when in truth he has known nothing but what has passed under his own eye."

—Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Cooper, 1823

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

 

[oc_civic]

I think you should do more research on the subject.

to say that the thoughts of a dozen or even 100 people indicated the feelings of the majority is simply not accurate... i never once stated that a specific single individual was Christian or not... I stated that "freedom of religion" is kind of hard to obtain when the colony you live in has set religious views..

just a simple single example showing the presence of the Christian faith in early American times..

Article III. And every denomination of Christians, demeaning themselves peaceably and as good subjects of the commonwealth, shall be equally under the protection of the law; and no subordination of any one sect or denomination to another shall ever be established by law.

Chapter VI. Article I. Any person chosen governor, lieutenant-governor, councillor, senator, or representative, and accepting the trust, shall, before he proceed to execute the duties of his place or office, make and subscribe the following declaration, viz:

'I _______, do declare that I believe the Christian religion...'"

Massachusetts Constitution
1780

 

[Mr. Jollypants]

to say that the thoughts of a dozen or even 100 people indicated the feelings of the majority is simply not accurate... i never once stated that a specific single individual was Christian or not... I stated that "freedom of religion" is kind of hard to obtain when the colony you live in has set religious views..

just a simple single example showing the presence of the Christian faith in early American times..

What you quoted was for a single state, was not a federal constitution, and was also written DURING the war. That was written before the Articles of Confederation AND the Constitution.

 

[oc_civic]

What you quoted was for a single state, was not a federal constitution, and was also written DURING the war. That was written before the Articles of Confederation AND the Constitution.

http://undergod.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=69

many states had 200+ years of state involved religious policy.... I don't see any mention of Allah.. or Muslims in there.. I am not arguing for one second that any of this really means anything of substance.. should we round up all Muslims kick them out of the country and cut off all of our ties with waring nations? no probably not (although it would increase our level of safety dramatically).. I am simply saying that the early inhabitants of our nation were not as politically correct as modern history makes it out to be..

 

[vjf915]

Stop being misled. This nation was not founded under god. It was founded under the premise of being a free nation where any can practice any religion they wish.

THIS. This nation was not founded under the belief of a CHRISTIAN God, it was founded under the belief that you could worship any religion you wish.

in fact the original 13 colonies even had state run religion..

Separation of Church and State is such a beautiful thing.....

Anthony....I see your point of view, you make GREAT points, and I really like how you debate things. You put things into perspective and "argue" rationally. I really do admire how you do that. Based on my limited knowledge of the religion, do I think that Muslims are f**ked up? Yes. Do I think that its a religion the world could CERTAINLY do better without? Probably. However.....you and I do not have the ability to make that choice. I personally think that they should have chosen a better spot. But we cant chose that spot for them. We, in the United States of America, do not have the right to restrict where someone builds a center of worship solely based on the religion that they follow. Personal opinions aside, that is the bottom line.

 

[Wolfy]

I don't normally give a f**k about chain e-mails, but this one kinda stuck out to me... I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree.

Regarding the mosque near ground zero, I say let them build it. But across the street, we should put a topless bar, called "You Mecca Me Hot." Next to that, a gay bar called "The Turban Cowboy," next to that, a pork-rib restaurant called "Iraq o' Ribs," and a check cashing center called "Iran Out Of Money." Let's see who's really tolerant!

 

[vjf915]

There is a video a couple pages back about this. The guy proposes a gay bar that is Muslim friendly. The names are hilarious. Even better than "You Mecca Me Hot" was "Suspicious Packages".