John. I appreciate you not mentioning my name, but I'm going to open up about this one. That decision was based off of what the entire staff agreed on, I was simply the messenger for the staff as a whole (including myself). However, I also explained to you that if the purpose of your thread was to make finding information easier on the site, we surely didn't want to direct people to ANOTHER site. I also told you that if you wanted or needed ANY help to let me know. I don't want to re-word a 10k word thread either, but I sure as hell will create accounts on other sites and ask for permission to copy/paste and give credit where credit is due. If you wanted to get more out of the thread, you certainly could have let me know.
Input requested. *Please read*
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My original intentions were to make a thread so people would stop asking the same questions every day lol. If that means sourcing information outside ClubCivic, then it certainly wouldn't hurt. Doing what I did made it very limiting. I tried contacting the HT admin but I have yet to hear from him and it's been a couple weeks now. I even told him another moderator referred me to him to get a better and more clear answer.
I'm not trying to blame you or the staff for the decision that was made. I just believe that ClubCivic is still small and needs to take more drastic measures in order to help provide more tech.
I'm not trying to blame you or the staff for the decision that was made. I just believe that ClubCivic is still small and needs to take more drastic measures in order to help provide more tech.
joe7987
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^^I agree with you about finding ways to provide more tech... That's been something we've been brainstorming and haven't found an amazing answer for yet.. I've been trying to post in tech sections more to do my part, but that only helps so much.
Yea, the "not linking a honda-tech thread in a CC sticky" idea was a group mod idea. We decided that if we wanted people to stay here, we shouldn't send them elsewhere for information. Picture it: you come to a site for the first time, and you check a sticky because it pertains to something you're interested in. A sticky is a very important thread that represents the website as a whole. You go into that sticky and you see that to provide information, they're sending you to some other website. What would you do? I wouldn't stick around. I'd say "Oh, ok.. that site must provide better information than this one if they had to link it and couldn't provide their own information. I think I'll go join up over there." In a time where we're trying to increase activity and tech related discussion, sending people to another site just isn't in CC's best interest.
Sure, hopefully they'll go over to H-T and find out that their atmosphere is fairly inferior to ours, but there's also that chance that they'll stay there and we'll never see them again.
Yea, the "not linking a honda-tech thread in a CC sticky" idea was a group mod idea. We decided that if we wanted people to stay here, we shouldn't send them elsewhere for information. Picture it: you come to a site for the first time, and you check a sticky because it pertains to something you're interested in. A sticky is a very important thread that represents the website as a whole. You go into that sticky and you see that to provide information, they're sending you to some other website. What would you do? I wouldn't stick around. I'd say "Oh, ok.. that site must provide better information than this one if they had to link it and couldn't provide their own information. I think I'll go join up over there." In a time where we're trying to increase activity and tech related discussion, sending people to another site just isn't in CC's best interest.
Sure, hopefully they'll go over to H-T and find out that their atmosphere is fairly inferior to ours, but there's also that chance that they'll stay there and we'll never see them again.
John, I know you were not trying to blame me or the staff for the decision. Joe just explained it far better than I did, so I will let his explanation represent what the staff felt. Even though it hindered your ability to create a VERY informative thread, I would definitely be willing to try and brainstorm a couple ideas about how we could provide technical information here.
I completely understand where you guys (as a staff) are coming from as far as trying to raise activity here and not sending people out to other sites for information.
I agree, it's really tricky to provide more tech that is on other sites while not sending them over there. I give you guys props for whatever decision you decide to make (if it works lol). I'm sure we're all seeing eye to eye on this matter. But I just thought that, for now, sourcing other sites would be a tremendous help as far as providing tech.
And I'd like to think otherwise about sending people outside ClubCivic. Maybe it's just me, but I feel that if I posted a thread on here and someone posted a link to another site, I would not feel that I should leave this site just because another site had the information I was looking for.
I agree, it's really tricky to provide more tech that is on other sites while not sending them over there. I give you guys props for whatever decision you decide to make (if it works lol). I'm sure we're all seeing eye to eye on this matter. But I just thought that, for now, sourcing other sites would be a tremendous help as far as providing tech.
And I'd like to think otherwise about sending people outside ClubCivic. Maybe it's just me, but I feel that if I posted a thread on here and someone posted a link to another site, I would not feel that I should leave this site just because another site had the information I was looking for.
RonJ
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You clearly support Anthony either because this is what you truly believe or because your pure diplomatic, team player personality compels you to take this position to the bitter end. Nonetheless, in my opinion, your evaluation of Anthony has numerous flaws because it flies in the face of a large body of facts.
First, you make the repeated claim that the thug style of staff leadership was limited only to a brief period of time when I was a moderator. However, I took time to read past posts in the mod forum when I joined the staff, and the same exact problem clearly existed long before my time there. This indicates that a well developed strategy of intimidation had been ingrained into CC leadership culture for quite some time. As further support for my contention, anyone can read the same thug behavior of said moderator in the public forum reaching quite some time into the past. Yet even with such a history, Anthony inexplicably promoted said member to become a moderator and defended him all the way to the end.
Second, when I joined the staff, CC had many important issues that needed to be addressed by the staff through discussions in the mod forum. Unfortunately, said moderator consistently disrupted discussions by posting dismissive opinions in his thug style language. He simply stymied any mature intelligent discussions. It was like have a crying baby with colic present during an important business meeting. After experiencing these disruptions a few times, I concluded that said moderator was the root cause for nothing significant getting accomplished in the mod forum. In my mind, this logically reset my priorities as a staff member toward a specific and concentrated lobbying effort to eliminate him. Otherwise, nothing important could get done. Surprising to me, these staff discussions revealed that while nearly all moderators agreed that said moderator was disruptive, they felt he should not be dismissed. During these discussions, you (Joey) took an even more extreme position by arguing that this moderator's behavior was not any problem in either the mod or public forum. Only in retrospect do you now acknowledge that this moderator was indeed a roadblock to progress. What am I trying to say here? The entire staff culture at the time was in such disarray and under such poor leadership that none of the staff except me was able to see a HUGE problem that needed to be fixed. Hence, your decision that no leadership changes should be made is in my opinion a big judgment error on your part.
Third, my points here^ also raise some concerns about the majority vote approach the staff has adopted. This same point was made by Jolly in his post. When the entire staff is indoctrinated and happy with the status quo, wrong decisions will be made regularly, even when the majority of the staff agree. What part of your strategy prevents this type of group error from happening?
First, you make the repeated claim that the thug style of staff leadership was limited only to a brief period of time when I was a moderator. However, I took time to read past posts in the mod forum when I joined the staff, and the same exact problem clearly existed long before my time there. This indicates that a well developed strategy of intimidation had been ingrained into CC leadership culture for quite some time. As further support for my contention, anyone can read the same thug behavior of said moderator in the public forum reaching quite some time into the past. Yet even with such a history, Anthony inexplicably promoted said member to become a moderator and defended him all the way to the end.
Second, when I joined the staff, CC had many important issues that needed to be addressed by the staff through discussions in the mod forum. Unfortunately, said moderator consistently disrupted discussions by posting dismissive opinions in his thug style language. He simply stymied any mature intelligent discussions. It was like have a crying baby with colic present during an important business meeting. After experiencing these disruptions a few times, I concluded that said moderator was the root cause for nothing significant getting accomplished in the mod forum. In my mind, this logically reset my priorities as a staff member toward a specific and concentrated lobbying effort to eliminate him. Otherwise, nothing important could get done. Surprising to me, these staff discussions revealed that while nearly all moderators agreed that said moderator was disruptive, they felt he should not be dismissed. During these discussions, you (Joey) took an even more extreme position by arguing that this moderator's behavior was not any problem in either the mod or public forum. Only in retrospect do you now acknowledge that this moderator was indeed a roadblock to progress. What am I trying to say here? The entire staff culture at the time was in such disarray and under such poor leadership that none of the staff except me was able to see a HUGE problem that needed to be fixed. Hence, your decision that no leadership changes should be made is in my opinion a big judgment error on your part.
Third, my points here^ also raise some concerns about the majority vote approach the staff has adopted. This same point was made by Jolly in his post. When the entire staff is indoctrinated and happy with the status quo, wrong decisions will be made regularly, even when the majority of the staff agree. What part of your strategy prevents this type of group error from happening?
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^^I would be worried about your last point if the majority of the staff had been on the staff for a long time. It's really only me and Anthony that have been though, and thus I think only the two of us could be set in our ways and fostering maintenance of the status quo. It could be argued that Victor is as well, as he has been with us for a decent amount of time, but we have other moderators in the group who are not quite so old.
Biz wasn't always a problem. He was a great moderator at one point. It wasn't Anthony's decision to promote him to blue, but all of ours. He was dedicated, open-minded, and truly cared about the site and its interests. After a while of being blue, it turned for the worst and he started to abuse his power. You may have detected it before the rest of us did, but we DID detect it and it WAS handled.
You seem to operate off of the platform that "I was right in the past, that means I'm right now." I don't think this is necessarily the case, especially when you have so little information on which to base a good decision and pass good judgment. Maybe you are right and the staff is wrong. It will be considered and observed over time. It's obvious that you've planted the seed. If your judgments are correct, they will be seen. If they are incorrect, they will fade away. All in all, I still don't think you have the proper amount of information, aside from your short-term experience as a moderator, to make such a judgment with the amount of certainty you seem to portray.
Biz wasn't always a problem. He was a great moderator at one point. It wasn't Anthony's decision to promote him to blue, but all of ours. He was dedicated, open-minded, and truly cared about the site and its interests. After a while of being blue, it turned for the worst and he started to abuse his power. You may have detected it before the rest of us did, but we DID detect it and it WAS handled.
You seem to operate off of the platform that "I was right in the past, that means I'm right now." I don't think this is necessarily the case, especially when you have so little information on which to base a good decision and pass good judgment. Maybe you are right and the staff is wrong. It will be considered and observed over time. It's obvious that you've planted the seed. If your judgments are correct, they will be seen. If they are incorrect, they will fade away. All in all, I still don't think you have the proper amount of information, aside from your short-term experience as a moderator, to make such a judgment with the amount of certainty you seem to portray.
Ron, although you have a compelling argument, there is one major flaw in it. The member you speak of is no longer on the staff. I do not wish to publicly dispute whether or not somebody WAS a good or bad moderator. It is no longer an issue. The staff is made up of very different people than when you were on the staff, therefore your argument is a moot point. It has no merit. You can trash this person and how he talked/modded all you want. However it is, and will no longer be an issue with the staff. We CURRENTLY (this is the important part) have a staff that is open to discuss any suggestions, and do it in a mature manner. That's why we are currently trying to discuss and implement some changes that will help the site.
I was gonna say... Ron, why are you talking about Biz? He is no longer on the staff. If it was a problem them, it is clearly no longer a problem now... Even though I'm not on the mod staff, I'll have to agree. Things are definitely different since you've been a mod Ron. Things have changed. Even I've noticed it.
RonJ
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I do understand what you are saying here, yet if I were given two options for assembling a CC staff, where the first option has Anthony on the staff and the second option does not, I would select the second option because in my opinion it would have a much greater chance of creating significant positive change for CC. This idea is in line with my ongoing contention in this thread that the changes you guys have been suggesting are not yet big enough. They're just minor variations on old ways of doing things because the same leader and his ability to significantly influence decisions are still in place.
I can see how my comment about me recognizing that a moderator was bad for CC before others did gave an impression that I believe that I was smarter or more insightful than other staff members were at the time. This is not true and also was not the point I was trying to make. My simple point was that this incident served as a striking example of how badly the staff had fallen into a state of denial, indifference, and paralysis under Anthony. You may argue that Anthony has learned from those past mistakes and therefore should retain his admin position. I would argue that a safer bet is to restart CC under new leadership. And I also do recognize that making such a leadership change will be more difficult initially but, in the end, it should make CC stronger.
You missed the main point of my mentioning the incident with said moderator. See my comments above to Joey. And from what I have read, there now is no dispute about whether this moderator was bad. I also have no interest in trashing anyone. I have strong opinions relevant to the input request of this thread, so I shared them with the belief that they might help in some way. That's all.
People who have taken the time to get to know me.. KNOW ME.. and know how fair and impartial I am.. the ironic truth of this is as you sit here in the public forum and attempt to SLAY my character... I am off in the mod forum recommending you to return to the staff....
I am SO impartial that I cast aside your personal assault.. and instead focus on what is best for the site...
If you ever have any questions about my character you can ask Jared AKA builthatch.. he knows me in real life.. and I think that he would find your view of me being tyrannical and one sided hysterical.. I would literally.. give you the shirt off my back.... I have put YEARS into this site on the back end trying to help.. mediated endless issues.. trying to make improvements.. and trying to balance what everyone wanted..
you can dislike me all you want.. the problem is you run to me and say this or that.. and you expect me to just make drastic changes on a whim.. running the site is a more delicate balance... just because you observe someone as being a complete disaster I can not just end them as a staff member... but I DID listen to you.. I DID discuss the situation with Justin.. your complaints.. suggestions.. did not go ignored.. but we are not structured to just reinvent the site over night... sorry.. really.. because at the end of the day you are from a tech standpoint probably the single most qualified person I have ever met on this site to be a staff member.... it is unfortunate that we can not get past your unusually high personal dislike for me..
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RonJ
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I cannot and do not fault you for feeling that my comments about you represent a character assassination. I can only tell you that I have enough self restraint to check myself if a dislike for you were the sole motivation for my posts. Unlike Jared, I do not know you personally and, if I did, that knowledge would likely only bias my opinions and assessments pertinent to the goal of this thread. The Anthony that I came to know while a mod is a bright and passionate person who seems to care deeply about CC. I also saw many of your genuine attempts to be fair and impartial in the mod forum. More important, I have NEVER believed that you are a bad person. Nothing I have said about you in this thread contradicts this. If I made only one mistake in this thread, it was not to add this necessary balance to my evaluation of you. Nonetheless, I obviously believe that you failed to recognize some important problems and also were slow and reluctant to act even when confronted with strong evidence. These weaknesses disappointed me and prompted my resignation from the staff, but I have NEVER hated you.
Since that time, I never really gave the incident much more thought until this thread was created. It made me think about what I believed were the weaknesses of CC, so in post #2 I listed them along with some general suggestions about how they might be overcome. As the thread evolved and I read your posts, I felt that your annoyance with new members was anti-tech and that this attitude would hinder site growth. I specifically commented on this in posts #36 and #57. Thinking about this further led me to consider that this philosophy of the leader of a Civic-based forum may be part of the reason that the growth of CC has been hampered, which was the basis for most of my ideas in posts #104, #106, and #110. By post #117, I explained that my main reason to suggest that you be replaced was because you are the site leader and when things aren't going well, the buck stops there. By the end of this thread, I also began to reflect on my time as a mod and the reason for my resignation (post #138). This incident together with the other points I raised shaped my opinions expressed in this thread.
My intention for posting in this thread was to offer helpful (and possibly radical) suggestions for change. As my posts are now generating more anger than thought, I'll step away from this discussion so as not to prevent it from taking other more productive directions.
Since that time, I never really gave the incident much more thought until this thread was created. It made me think about what I believed were the weaknesses of CC, so in post #2 I listed them along with some general suggestions about how they might be overcome. As the thread evolved and I read your posts, I felt that your annoyance with new members was anti-tech and that this attitude would hinder site growth. I specifically commented on this in posts #36 and #57. Thinking about this further led me to consider that this philosophy of the leader of a Civic-based forum may be part of the reason that the growth of CC has been hampered, which was the basis for most of my ideas in posts #104, #106, and #110. By post #117, I explained that my main reason to suggest that you be replaced was because you are the site leader and when things aren't going well, the buck stops there. By the end of this thread, I also began to reflect on my time as a mod and the reason for my resignation (post #138). This incident together with the other points I raised shaped my opinions expressed in this thread.
My intention for posting in this thread was to offer helpful (and possibly radical) suggestions for change. As my posts are now generating more anger than thought, I'll step away from this discussion so as not to prevent it from taking other more productive directions.
I am not a leader.. and I have never claimed to be.. I am a member of this site.. just like you.. and the countless others.. the ONLY difference is I am an administrator... this means that if something has to be done.. administratively I do it... I do not control the staff.. I am a part of the staff.. I can not count the times I have stated "I do not agree but if you collectively want to do that we will" here is the issue.. there are some things that are simply set in stone...
someone says the new reputation system is BS because people are "repping people" for nonsense.. the adjustment made is one that no longer considers off topic posts... this is a "problem" that has a simple non involved solution so it is implemented swiftly.....
someone says I want there to be 100 post minimum for classifieds and my polite answer will be no with the detailed explanation of why.. not because they have no say.. but because there are other reasons beyond that that have been discussed over time.. time and time again.. when I swiftly say "no not going to happen" the intent is not one to be rude.. or abrasive.. the goal is to be blunt and save time....
It is just frustrating because your perception of me is so unreasonably off.. Joe adopts the standpoint he does because he has seen OTHERS bring up ideas.... ideas I had not been favorable of.. and I pushed them through because the staff as a whole wants it.. the noob section is a prime example.. the problem I have with that section is it becomes this cluttered catch all section with tons of random threads... but the staff as a whole wanted it back so I brought it back.. I was wrong.. I am glad we agreed to do it.. I am extremely flexible.. so really.. I fail to see how I hinder the growth of anything.. you have specific real plans about the site.. post them... and see if Justin and or the rest of the staff/site think they are good ideas.. as of right now.. I am not going anywhere...
ImportFan1
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Idea for boosting site activity: mobile apps for Android and iOS. I created a thread on it since that a whole monster of itself to tackle.
http://www.clubcivic.com/board/showthread.php?t=202063
http://www.clubcivic.com/board/showthread.php?t=202063
Its not all doom and gloom
I just got done reading most of this thread, (eyes bleeding)
I’m a new member, so I really don’t understand all the politics that are going on around here, but let me say this. Club civic is fantastic. Yeah you might get flamed at a few times, if you put lights under your car, eBay projectors as headlights, and a bunch of Wal-Mart chrome on your trim, someone will probably come to your house and murder you.
But those things aside: I have learned more about civics here in the last year than I even thought possible. I started reading all the threads and such before I became a member, around May last year, and then I joined up in December I think. Before that I couldn't have told you the first thing about cars. I knew they took gas, and I had an idea of what happened inside the magic box called an engine, but I really had no Tec experience.
I still don’t know much about the engine, but I can do a full tune up on my car, plugs, sparks, oil, distributor, all that jazz, which to most of you is like walking and chewing bubble gum, but hey, cut me some slack.
That being said, the best part of club civic, is as stated previously, the club part. Yeah we don’t have as many members as some sites, but I think that’s good. I mean, I love looking on here and laughing at some of the stuff people post in threads, it just makes my day. Just thought the mods should know that this site really is kick A$$.
Yes a lot of new members put up a lot of stupid new posts (I know I did when I started) but I also think that they bring a lot of new stuff and fresh ideas. idk. Just my two cents.
I just got done reading most of this thread, (eyes bleeding)
I’m a new member, so I really don’t understand all the politics that are going on around here, but let me say this. Club civic is fantastic. Yeah you might get flamed at a few times, if you put lights under your car, eBay projectors as headlights, and a bunch of Wal-Mart chrome on your trim, someone will probably come to your house and murder you.
But those things aside: I have learned more about civics here in the last year than I even thought possible. I started reading all the threads and such before I became a member, around May last year, and then I joined up in December I think. Before that I couldn't have told you the first thing about cars. I knew they took gas, and I had an idea of what happened inside the magic box called an engine, but I really had no Tec experience.
I still don’t know much about the engine, but I can do a full tune up on my car, plugs, sparks, oil, distributor, all that jazz, which to most of you is like walking and chewing bubble gum, but hey, cut me some slack.
That being said, the best part of club civic, is as stated previously, the club part. Yeah we don’t have as many members as some sites, but I think that’s good. I mean, I love looking on here and laughing at some of the stuff people post in threads, it just makes my day. Just thought the mods should know that this site really is kick A$$.
Yes a lot of new members put up a lot of stupid new posts (I know I did when I started) but I also think that they bring a lot of new stuff and fresh ideas. idk. Just my two cents.
joe7987
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^^Really appreciate you posting your opinion in here. I had a similar experience when I joined CC and it's good to see that it hasn't stopped. Despite your awesome testament, we're still working hard on changes.
A small teaser: We've got one really big change in site policy that I anticipate will make a huge impact over time, and one new feature that you guys should be happy about. In addition, featured ride has been restructured with a great incentive and will be returning soon. That's not all we're doing, but those are the three biggest things on our plate at the moment. We're working hard to put your suggestions into effect and we hope they make the positive difference we're aiming for.
A small teaser: We've got one really big change in site policy that I anticipate will make a huge impact over time, and one new feature that you guys should be happy about. In addition, featured ride has been restructured with a great incentive and will be returning soon. That's not all we're doing, but those are the three biggest things on our plate at the moment. We're working hard to put your suggestions into effect and we hope they make the positive difference we're aiming for.
One correction in that. Featured Ride is back, and there is one opening left 
Good s**t.I agree cc is a great site with alot of great members i have learned alot and i havent been here long enough or know enough about them to comment on most of the poltic side.
Im looking forawrd to the promised change in policy joe any idea on when we will see it.
Im looking forawrd to the promised change in policy joe any idea on when we will see it.
Featured Ride is up and literally RUNNING. I am blown away at how fast we got these applicants....and yes we only have one spot left. Honestly, the change in policy and the feature that Joe mentioned should be coming out relatively soon. Although I don't want to put a time frame on it, keep your eyes peeled over the next couple weeks. These two changes are the biggest ones, but we are still discussing a couple smaller ones to help organize things.