So I'm on a budget here. So I can't do what I want and drop 1800 bucks on BuddyClub race specs... So I narrowed it down. Skunk2 type-s, Function & form type one, or blox racing ones. They all have something to offer, but most I'm looking for the best feeling, best handling coilover for my budget. What do you guys think?
Entry level coil question. skunk2 vs F&F vs BLOX
- Thread starter EJ8Metal
- Start date
EJ1SWAG
New Member
I'm in the same situation as you. I've ridden in cars with both the F&F and the Skunk2. Both are pretty comparable but I think I prefer the ride of the Function & Forms better. Plus they're a little cheaper than the Skunk2 coils. I'm also considering the KSport full coils. A buddy of mine has them on his RSX and they're amazing. Plus you get the added option of adjusting the front camber
Ksports better than everything previously mentioned. Ive only have skunk2 pro s' out of that lineup. But by word of mouth I havent heard any complaints about any of them, its pick your poison at this point.
i have the f&f type 1's and like them a lot. i recommend those, don't have any experience with the others.
I love my skunk 2 pro - c.. Omni on my last del sol were awesome you don't see them around very much but they were awesome.
You don't need to spend $1800 on suspension to have a great ride or even a setup that could be used on a dedicated race car...
Skunk2 is OK. You cannot have their shocks rebuilt though. If they fail, you're stuck buying a new coilover. Their spring rates are also fairly high.
F&F is junk. You'll get a ton of people recommending them but with no real experience or knowledge of them. Here's a nice picture of someone who bought F&F coilovers brand new. They came in the box LEAKING! Do they not have quality control? This apparently isn't the first time it's happened to someone either.. Sorry, I just don't think I'd ever buy a product from a company that ships an already failed part. Makes me question their quality control and then some.
Blox should never be considered. The worst out of the 3 you mentioned. I won't even get into them..
What exactly are you looking to get out of your suspension? IE: comfortable ride, slammed, moderate drop, stiff ride, etc.. What is your budget? What will the car be used for(daily drive, autox, track, spirited..)? You said you want something that has the best feeling and best handling, well that's very subjective. Everyone's idea of what is smooth, rough, or what handles great is a bit different. Need a little more information.
Don't consider KSport, they are just as bad as Blox.. which is pretty bad. Not worth the price at all. Your buddies RSX uses a MacPherson suspension which to get an extreme amount of camber out of, you need to use adjustable top hats, which is what he has. If you have a 2000 Civic or older, you will not have that option. You would need to buy camber arms separately.
Ksports are of the worst mentioned.
Best response in this thread.
Progress CS2 coilovers are the BEST priced coilovers I've seen. For $560 shipped, it's impossible to beat. They are also of excellent quality and offer a 1 year warranty on their coilovers. Progress is very well known and highly regarded in the racing community. Whereas F&F, Ksport and Blox are either unknown or laughed at. Nobody uses their products for racing, I wonder why........
The CS2's offer a very ideal spring rate for street and even track use. This means they are NOT meant to be slammed. If that's what you're looking for, then you might want to consider Skunk2. You can get a decent drop with the CS2's, have a relatively smooth ride and good handling. If I had money to blow, I'd quickly buy a set of these for my daily driver Civic.
Another setup I always recommend is Koni Yellows and Ground Control coilovers. For around $800 you have one of the most useful, versatile and highest quality suspension products available. The shocks can be rebuilt to w/e specs you want. Ground Control uses Eibach springs and they sell literally thousands of different springs with different rates. This is probably the most widely used suspension setup for AutoX and Road Racing. Both companies also offer lifetime warranties on their products. It's simply the best suspension you can put on your car without spending more than ~$2000. I've had this setup on my race car for about 4 years now. I've rebuilt it a couple of years ago and it's still working great.
Yeah the more I read about BLOX, the scarier they sound... F&F is very mixed, but the leaking strut brand new in the box... I don't know about that. Skunk2's look the best of the three but I have to check out these Progress C32's.
More info, seeing as you asked haha: I like a stiff car with good dampening, something obviously significantly stiffer up front considering the car is at around a whopping 57% front weight as it sits (going to put it on scales when I can) It is my daily, comfort isn't they key but, quality is. I can't have anything that will let me down 10k miles down the road. As for driving I'm looking for something that can push me closer to that 1 lateral G goal I have! This thing will see a LOT of track/autoX duty, and I live up in the mountains of Massachusetts with very "Touge" styled mountain roads that I rip on constantly... So I drive like I live in the mountains -thumbs up- As for low, I want minimal 2 inch drop WITHOUT effecting pre-load, which is why I listed the three I have, they all have threaded shock tubes and adjust without messing up the spring pre-load. Ideal height would be a 2.5 inch drop.
There you go, now let me know what you know! : )
More info, seeing as you asked haha: I like a stiff car with good dampening, something obviously significantly stiffer up front considering the car is at around a whopping 57% front weight as it sits (going to put it on scales when I can) It is my daily, comfort isn't they key but, quality is. I can't have anything that will let me down 10k miles down the road. As for driving I'm looking for something that can push me closer to that 1 lateral G goal I have! This thing will see a LOT of track/autoX duty, and I live up in the mountains of Massachusetts with very "Touge" styled mountain roads that I rip on constantly... So I drive like I live in the mountains -thumbs up- As for low, I want minimal 2 inch drop WITHOUT effecting pre-load, which is why I listed the three I have, they all have threaded shock tubes and adjust without messing up the spring pre-load. Ideal height would be a 2.5 inch drop.
There you go, now let me know what you know! : )
A lot of people tend to believe that having significantly stiffer front springs is the way to go for our FWD cars. However, for a good track/autox car, that is NOT the case.
You can do some math and figure out the motion ratio of your car, get the corner weights of the car, etc.. and then pick and choose what spring rates to use on each corner of your car. Ideally that's the right way to do it. However, this really isn't necessary unless you're very competitive and want to win Nationals or some big events... General rule of thumb for these cars is that you want to run atleast close to even spring rates all around OR higher spring rates in the rear than the front. The effect of this setup is that your car will rotate(oversteer) more and this will result in smoother/faster cornering. It may seem kind of counter intuitive running say 350lbs/in springs front and 450lbs/in spring rear because you might think the weight of the front end will just cause the car to nose dive and hurt the car for braking or w/e. BUT, remember, 350lbs/in springs is MUCH higher than your stock spring rates! The car won't nose dive nearly as much as it did. PLUS, that forward motion when braking into a turn will cause the rear end to "lighten" up thus helping you make a turn(oversteer).
The one problem with running a higher rate in the rear than the front is that it will effect ride comfort on the street. That's the trade off, can't have everything.. For your case, it may be better to run an even spring rate all around to try and find a happy medium.
I'd suggest spring rates of 400lbs/in front and 400lbs/in rear. I personally wouldn't go higher than that for a somewhat comfortable street car.
This is where the advantage of the Koni/Ground Control setup comes into play. The Koni Yellow shocks can handle springs up to 600lbs/in, which is pretty high. For a street car you really shouldn't go higher than that.. Ground-Control allows you to choose w/e spring rates you want. So, you can easily get 400lbs/in springs from them. The great thing about this setup is, if for some reason down the road you want to try out different spring rates, you can buy w/e spring rates you want(up to 600) and slap them on your car very easily. So if you think 400/400 is too soft at some point, then you could go up to 500/600, or if you think 400/400 is too stiff, you could drop to 300/250, or w/e rates you want..
Forget about this pre-load nonsense. I don't know why the ideas been tossed around so much lately.. Koni/GC and Progress CS2 coilovers have no way to set preload, and it doesn't matter. Set your ride height and be done with it.
To be around a 2.5" drop with the Koni/GC, I'd highly suggest getting the Ground-Control extended top hats for the front suspension. This will allow for extra shaft travel in the shock so you do not slam into the bump stops.
As far as spring rates go I know the general amount I want. Between doing mathematics by weight percentage and, in all honesty... Forza motor sports to simulate LMAO, because it's pretty balls on, and no... I'm not building a car based on a video game. But companies such as Tein, who make my top pick suspension, the type FLEX have a 720 lb/in rate in the front and a 450 lb/in rate in the rear. I know stock rates are around, something stupid like 100 in the front and like 70 in the back LOL If that. I belive the Skunk2's that I'm looking at are pretty stiff, something around 558 in the front and around 446 in the rear. Give or take. That's what I'm looking for so I may have my pic... Thanks of course to your F&F leaking out of the box info haha. The Progress ones like I said, mess up pre-load if you want to lower it.
The way you lower the Progress's, you turn the spring collar which compresses it to make it lower, compressing the spring puts a PRE-load onto the spring, causing it to, as it says, have a load on the spring. Creates a bouncy ride and you run the risk of "bump steer" which is... More then anything, dangerous.
i had FnF type 1's on my coupe and i didnt have a single problem with them. No leak, no nothing. Something happens and gets posted on the internet and a product instantly becomes the most horrible product on the market....its ridiculous. Each of the companies mentioned have all produced great products and also have all had issues with failed products at one time or another as well. The only thing I would consider when buying is the rebuild-ability (if you were to ever need it) and the specs on the suspension meeting your criteria.
Its hard for someone to give you an accurate opinion on ride quality or functionality of a suspension piece simply due to people having their own preferences. I like my FnF's for daily driving, but on a track I wouldn't use them, but that's only because of the spring rates not being as high as I would like on the track. You or anyone could want/expect a totally different ride feel. The conditions you drive your vehicle in make a huge impact as well.
You should base your choice off of practicality and your own personal specs.
(ive been on Function and Forms, Buddy club Racing specs, Tein basics, Tein Flex's, Tanabe sustec, Koni adjustables with eibach springs, and D2......so i've felt quite a few unique suspension setups)
Its hard for someone to give you an accurate opinion on ride quality or functionality of a suspension piece simply due to people having their own preferences. I like my FnF's for daily driving, but on a track I wouldn't use them, but that's only because of the spring rates not being as high as I would like on the track. You or anyone could want/expect a totally different ride feel. The conditions you drive your vehicle in make a huge impact as well.
You should base your choice off of practicality and your own personal specs.
(ive been on Function and Forms, Buddy club Racing specs, Tein basics, Tein Flex's, Tanabe sustec, Koni adjustables with eibach springs, and D2......so i've felt quite a few unique suspension setups)
Hey now, hey now. I never ruled anything out. Haha just weary of getting a bad product. I have no experience with F&F or BLOX, so I was just asking around. Skunk2's seem to be the best choice for my sub $800 coil budget, they're the best spring rate and best valved, mind you I drive around with basically no interior even Dailying this car, so I can handle it being stiff haha.
You're right though, it depends on what I want, so I'm trying to find out what fits my criteria the best by what people say. Thanks for the input. : )
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this. buying myself a set on Wednesday..!
Tein is good, but I wouldn't put them in a category of top pick suspension companies. You can certainly do with 550 front and rear or 550 front and 450 rear with the Koni/GC. My first setup was 450F 550R and it was great. Though pretty harsh on the road, comfort was definitely not a word to describe the ride in any way. I know ride quality is subjective, but, not a single person who rode in my car ever said it was even just OK. Everyone hated it. From fellow racers to family members.. But, if that's what you're looking for, go for it.
Turning the spring perch on the Progress coilovers has no effect on the car. When you raise the car to adjust your suspension, the suspension will go to full droop. This mean there will be no pressure on the suspension. Then you just make your adjustment, lock the spring perch, and bring the car back to the ground. It's EXACTLY like the Koni/GC coilover setup and most other coilover setups.
This isn't the first incident with F&F. And the fact that these coilovers are so highly questioned brings doubt. Not to mention in my 6 years of being heavily involved in motorsports racing, I have never once seen anyone even remotely competitive use this product, let alone recommend them. Just take a look on the Road Race/AutoX/Time Attack section on Honda-Tech, not a single person there has this setup. I wonder why... Not only do they look for well performing parts, they look for high quality, reliable parts. Racing is expensive and not everyone who does it has deep pockets. If F&F made such great products, I would surely bet that they would be seen and heard of more in the racing community. However they are not. People spend the extra buck because they know it'll work and last.
Even if this is purely a street driven car, I'd still spend the extra buck and go with a company that has proven track experience. It just makes sense..
Like I said, Skunk2 is OK. Their products have always been a bit questionable as far as I've seen. The shocks are also not rebuildable which is a drawback in my eyes. The Pro-S model is also not rebound adjustable. For about the same price, you can have rebound adjustable Koni's and have the same spring rates as those Skunk2's with the GC kit.
cleanEJ6
New Member
Hey there. You may want to exercise caution whenever someone is too opinionated in either direction about this kind of thing. You know, like when senators rail against prostitution for years on end and then get caught with a tranny in a gas station bathroom.
I like my Function and Form type 1's. They ride nice on the street. You really can barely even tell you are using coilovers under normal driving conditions. They do however feel nice and stable in corners and at auto cross. Mine don't make any weird creaking or popping noise under braking or cornering. Easy to adjust and plenty of room to slam your car if you're that kind of person. My 97 four door has a 1 finger gap and there is plenty of adjustment remaining.I've had lots of coilovers on lots of different cars and as far as daily driving goes I've never been more satisfied.
As far as Blox is concerned, I ordered some rear upper control arms a few months back and I could just tell how bad they were just by looking / feeling them. I wasn't about to trust my car to them. If their coilovers are similar, I would be careful.
Those are my experiences with your referenced brands. I have no experience with Progress. Again though, be wary of replies where someone rails against one brand because they saw one example of a part was shipped defective and then gives a raving review of a part that costs even less. Angry people are always the loudest and for every person who complains about something 100 other people quietly go about their business enjoying the same item.
I like my Function and Form type 1's. They ride nice on the street. You really can barely even tell you are using coilovers under normal driving conditions. They do however feel nice and stable in corners and at auto cross. Mine don't make any weird creaking or popping noise under braking or cornering. Easy to adjust and plenty of room to slam your car if you're that kind of person. My 97 four door has a 1 finger gap and there is plenty of adjustment remaining.I've had lots of coilovers on lots of different cars and as far as daily driving goes I've never been more satisfied.
As far as Blox is concerned, I ordered some rear upper control arms a few months back and I could just tell how bad they were just by looking / feeling them. I wasn't about to trust my car to them. If their coilovers are similar, I would be careful.
Those are my experiences with your referenced brands. I have no experience with Progress. Again though, be wary of replies where someone rails against one brand because they saw one example of a part was shipped defective and then gives a raving review of a part that costs even less. Angry people are always the loudest and for every person who complains about something 100 other people quietly go about their business enjoying the same item.
the racing industry people dont look towards FnF for setups because the FnF developers cater towards street vehicles rather than track.
Im not here boasting FnF or any other company for that matter. They all have their pro's and cons...All of which, i have heard of failing in one way or another on multiple occasions throughout the years, so you're always at risk of being that "one guy who got the shitty product". Ive been around awhile....if you have, im sure you can remember the days when Progress wasn't the "go to" company for example. Im simply saying that the machines that make these products, and the individuals who inspect them both aren't perfect and there is bound to be mishaps....and also the fact that you can't directly compare one setup to the next because they are not all designed with the same product goals in mind. ie: Spoon sports - endurance and balance, Jun automechanic - max power, and so on. the same applies with suspension.
Im not here boasting FnF or any other company for that matter. They all have their pro's and cons...All of which, i have heard of failing in one way or another on multiple occasions throughout the years, so you're always at risk of being that "one guy who got the shitty product". Ive been around awhile....if you have, im sure you can remember the days when Progress wasn't the "go to" company for example. Im simply saying that the machines that make these products, and the individuals who inspect them both aren't perfect and there is bound to be mishaps....and also the fact that you can't directly compare one setup to the next because they are not all designed with the same product goals in mind. ie: Spoon sports - endurance and balance, Jun automechanic - max power, and so on. the same applies with suspension.
that's what im getting at.
