parasitic drain issue

[ronk]

Hello everyone. i'm new to the site, but i'm having an issue with my 2003 civic ex, and i'm hoping there is some here who can steer me in the right direction. I am not an electrical expert by any means, but here is what I have done.
When I disconnect the neg battery terminal and hook up in series, I initially see around 300 milliamps. After 20 seconds it will drop off and stay at 80ma. If I pull the radio fuse, it will drop off to ~74 ma. No other fuses make a difference when I pull them-in either fuse box.
If I disconnect to the starter, it also makes no difference. However, when I disconnect to the alternator, I will see the dropoff. If I just disconnect the 4 wire harness on the alt., same thing, I get the dropoff.

My battery and alternator are new, and have been tested as ok. But if I keep the battery hooked up for a few days, I will eventually need a jump. When I test the battery with the engine running, I only see around 11.5 volts. Even when I test it under load, I am only seeing 11.8 or so volts.

Do I have an ELD issue? If so, is there a way to verify it. Again, I'm not an expert, so type slow... and explain it to me like I'm an idiot. Any advice or help is much appreciated. Thanks, Ronk

 

[ronk]

Just to update, I'm still trying to chase this drain down, but I think that I have eliminated the ELD, thanks to a site called Sparky's Answers. My ELD seemed to pass the test. Now I'm wondering if it could be an ignition switch/relay issue. Again, any help is much appreciated. Thanks

 

[SpeedTechnik]

I would suggest you watch this video, Eric does a good run down on how to conduct a test and look for the parasitic drain. I also suggest you get a service manual, or at least diagrams of the wiring set up. After this you can rent/buy a voltmeter and do a run down of your civic kind of like what Eric will show you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF1gijj03_0

 

[SpeedTechnik]

Unfortunately when it comes to electrical wiring, testing is all you can do. But by checking how much is being drained you can determine what can be the cause and how it is doing it.

 

[ronk]

Thanks Speed. I have watched that video previously and it did help me eliminate a lot of wiring. My problem is that pulling fuses does not make the drain go away.

 

[SpeedTechnik]

Apart from fuses, it can be applications such as aftermarket stereos, sound systems, alarm. Do you have anything that is considered aftermarket? Did you ever have any work done by a shop? Check these places first. Have you gotten a wiring diagram? You should be aroung 50ma and you are having a 30ma drain and 74 without the radio fuse. I would start with the radio applications and such. In you wiring diagram it should say the exact milliamps for each application. This means you can hunt down a specific MA parasite instead of going through everything.

 

[ronk]

I do have an aftermarket stereo, but I had installed it probably 2 years ago. I've only recently have had issues. I plan on going back in and checking the radio wiring again though. I also will be getting a hold of wiring diagrams next week, in the meantime I did get a hold of the starting and charging diagram, and I'm trying to troubleshoot that system.
I did not see on the diagram where the milliamps are listed. Is it coded? For right now work keeps getting in the way, so I'm disconnecting the battery a lot....

 

[RonJ]

I hate parasites.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF1gijj03_0[/url]

My problem is that pulling fuses does not make the drain go away.

^I don't believe you.

 

[ronk]

^I don't believe you.

That doesn't exactly give me the warm fuzzy feeling that this is gonna be easy.LOL.

But you are right. What I should have said is that the drain does not go away UNLESS I pull the 80A fuse. Yesterday I pulled every fuse (except the 80A) and relay out of both fuse boxes at the same time, but I was still showing an 80 ma draw. I was hoping to avoid removing all the plastic/electrical tape on the wiring from the under hood fuse box to the alternator, but that was my next thought.

Thanks for the replies, and again, any suggestions are appreciated.

 

[RonJ]

That doesn't exactly give me the warm fuzzy feeling that this is gonna be easy.LOL.

But you are right. What I should have said is that the drain does not go away UNLESS I pull the 80A fuse. Yesterday I pulled every fuse (except the 80A) and relay out of both fuse boxes at the same time, but I was still showing an 80 ma draw. I was hoping to avoid removing all the plastic/electrical tape on the wiring from the under hood fuse box to the alternator, but that was my next thought.

Thanks for the replies, and again, any suggestions are appreciated.

You actually have done some good troubleshooting that pinpoints the drain to the alternator or its circuit.

...when I disconnect to the alternator, I will see the dropoff. If I just disconnect the 4 wire harness on the alt., same thing, I get the dropoff.

My battery and alternator are new, and have been tested as ok....When I test the battery with the engine running, I only see around 11.5 volts. Even when I test it under load, I am only seeing 11.8 or so volts.

I think the problem is the "new" alternator. It doesn't charge the battery because it probably has an internal short to ground. Where did you buy the alternator?

 

[SpeedTechnik]

That doesn't exactly give me the warm fuzzy feeling that this is gonna be easy.LOL.

But you are right. What I should have said is that the drain does not go away UNLESS I pull the 80A fuse. Yesterday I pulled every fuse (except the 80A) and relay out of both fuse boxes at the same time, but I was still showing an 80 ma draw. I was hoping to avoid removing all the plastic/electrical tape on the wiring from the under hood fuse box to the alternator, but that was my next thought.

Thanks for the replies, and again, any suggestions are appreciated.

Why wouldn't you pursue the issue in the direction of the 80MA fuse? If nothing else worked or had any affect, this is your only lead. What you also should have done is acquire a complete service manual because it has the wiring diagrams for both interior circuitry and mechanical circuitry; If you don't want the manual, then I suggest you acquire the wiring diagram for the 80MA circuitry because your draw will be here. Aside from that, have you checked if the fuses you are working with are correct? Meaning, have you checked if instead of an 80MA fuse you actually need a 50MA fuse?

Aside from that, get the diagram for the alternator and do a voltmeter test for that. You can also take it to Autozone and they can conduct a test for free. Should you not find anything in the 80MA circuitry, everything would be pointing towards the alternator.

 

[ronk]

My understanding is that the 80A fuse is a overall system protection. It doesn't "go" anywhere-or I guess you could say it goes everywhere. Anyway, it is called the battery fuse.
I got the alternator from NAPA. I thought that it was the alternator last week. So I took it in to NAPA and they tested it and said that it was ok. I still asked for and was given another alternator. i installed it and got the same results. Now these were both refurbished alternators. Could they both have an internal short that is not diagnosed with a normal test?

 

[SpeedTechnik]

My understanding is that the 80A fuse is a overall system protection. It doesn't "go" anywhere-or I guess you could say it goes everywhere. Anyway, it is called the battery fuse.
I got the alternator from NAPA. I thought that it was the alternator last week. So I took it in to NAPA and they tested it and said that it was ok. I still asked for and was given another alternator. i installed it and got the same results. Now these were both refurbished alternators. Could they both have an internal short that is not diagnosed with a normal test?

Yes, absolutely. When these tests are given, they hook up the alternator to a machine and check if it is producing the desired energy and if things such as the regulator are working. Something as specific as an internal short could easily be overlooked or left untested. It would also depend on the machine they are using. I would call and ask if their machine can detect an internal shortage. Im sure their answer would be no, and should this be the case I would advise to find a place to get it tested accurately for the short before buying a brand new oem alternator.As for the 80a fuse, although it goes everywhere I would still suggest to get a diagram because it will tell you the destinations; which in turn will help you deduce where the culprit is.

Aside from this, have you checked the grounds for the alternator?

What about the wires leading to the under the hood fusebox?

If removing the wire that leads to the under the hood fuse box removes the drain, then you might have a short in your fuse box that is causing the drain.