98 Civic is acting up. Need some direction to make it behave.

[Blake.]

Hey everybody,

My car has a problem, which in turn means i have a problem.

Alright, so here's the story.

Car started stumbling under load on my way to work about 2 weeks ago. i'd let out the clutch and it'd die unless i finagled with it. I limped it home and attempted to drive my truck but then it puked coolant, but thats another story. So anyways, the car has just gotten worse since then.

Currently as it sits, the car is hard to start. but once it cranks, it idles perfect. no issue there. but put it under load and it dies. if i rev it, same deal. the car dies, unless I let off the gas in time. then it idles perfectly fine. I can ease onto the skinny pedal ever so slightly and it is fine, unless under load. but if i try to rev quickly under like 4k rpm it stumbles and dies.

what I've done:

1. the day before the car started having issues, the muffler fell off. so with high hopes, i welded it back together. no change in car's behavior.

2. No check engine light, but i put my code reader on it anyway. I get a code for the O2 sensor. P0135. so i pull the O2 sensor out and check it with my trusty fluke meter and it registers like 14.something MEGA OHMS. apparently bad. I changed it out. the car still is not right. same issues.

3. checked the Throttle Position Sensor according to this site----> http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/honda/1.5L-1.6L/how-to-test-the-tps-sensor-1

and its checks out fine.

4. checked the MAP sensor according to this site. -----> http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/honda/1.5L-1.6L/how-to-test-the-map-sensor-1

and it checks fine.



I'm not sure where to go now. any and all advice is appreciated.

thanks
Blake

 

[RonJ]

Have you done an ignition system tune up?

Is P0135 still thrown? If so, check whether fuse 15 is blown.

 

[Blake.]

Have you done an ignition system tune up?

Is P0135 still thrown? If so, check whether fuse 15 is blown.

no code anymore, fuse 15 is fine.

no ignition tune up has been done.

 

[RonJ]

no ignition tune up has been done.

Get on it.

 

[Blake.]

Get on it.

like what? i cant just throw money at it. how do i check the different components to see what's bad?

will ignition issues make it behave like i described?

it only dies under load or if revved "quickly" but only from low rpm.

 

[RonJ]

no ignition tune up has been done.

like what? i cant just throw money at it.

If the plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and fuel filter are old or you're not sure how old they are, then replace them. For these crucial parts, it's called basic car MAINTENANCE, not throwing parts at it. Then go from there.

 

[00siboy]

Sounds more like a fuel issue to me. If its not getting enough fuel it would cause it to hard start and then also stumble under a load when it is demanding for fuel. Idle doesn't need as much fuel so you don't notice it as much at idle.

OP try checking fuel pressure/volume. Fuel pressure should be around 45. Another obvious thing to check is fuel level, I have noticed almost all 6th gens hard start when they are low on fuel, although they never caused these issues.

 

[Blake.]

If the plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and fuel filter are old or you're not sure how old they are, then replace them. For these crucial parts, it's called basic car MAINTENANCE, not throwing parts at it. Then go from there.

you don't understand what i'm saying.
whether it's maintenance or not is irrelevant

the point is that I don't have the money to go buy and replace a load of parts that aren't necessarily causing the problem at hand.
I'm trying to find out how to TROUBLESHOOT the different components of the systems. Isn't that what you're telling people to do with that comment you have in your signature?

Sounds more like a fuel issue to me. If its not getting enough fuel it would cause it to hard start and then also stumble under a load when it is demanding for fuel. Idle doesn't need as much fuel so you don't notice it as much at idle.

OP try checking fuel pressure/volume. Fuel pressure should be around 45. Another obvious thing to check is fuel level, I have noticed almost all 6th gens hard start when they are low on fuel, although they never caused these issues.

I replaced the fuel filter already and nothing changed. i guess i'll have to find something to check fuel pressure. I didnt notice the fuel being low. i cant remember what it is at so i cant say for sure how much is in it but i know i've ran it much much lower than it is now.

 

[SpeedTechnik]

you don't understand what i'm saying.
whether it's maintenance or not is irrelevant

the point is that I don't have the money to go buy and replace a load of parts that aren't necessarily causing the problem at hand.
I'm trying to find out how to TROUBLESHOOT the different components of the systems. Isn't that what you're telling people to do with that comment you have in your signature?



I replaced the fuel filter already and nothing changed. i guess i'll have to find something to check fuel pressure. I didnt notice the fuel being low. i cant remember what it is at so i cant say for sure how much is in it but i know i've ran it much much lower than it is now.

With an attitude you will most likely drive away any helpful replies and forum members from this thread, so keep calm. As far as troubleshooting you are missing the point. When you begin to have issues, most unknowledgeable individuals will say there is an end all be fix to that problem. Most of the time this is incorrect. Believe it or not maintenance could be the very cause of your problem. Owning a car is like owning a living thing, it requires care, constant supervision, and most of all -money. You saying maintenance is irrelevant when you are low on cash, is like saying it is irrelevant for a child to be bathed and fed properly when low on cash; Pardon me for being so blunt, but it is the truth. You will suffer more in the end if you aren't willing to spend. Which brings me to the point that if you cant afford to do these simple maintenances, why did you buy a 15 year old car? Apart from this im sure you will say that you were in need, and you ended up spending x amount which was a bargain, but considering that there are other methods of transportations and other options other than Hondas that are equally reliable and cheap but newer would have me think that you put your wants before your needs. Back to the topic at hand; It would be more likely that you are having performance issues under load because there are scattered problems throughout your systems, not just one. Just because the fuel pump or anything else you check is working doesn't mean its working at its best. Under high strain they should be able to perform, but if they are performing low the end result will suffer greatly. Unfortunately the only fixture for this would be general maintenances to all three systems. which are air, ignition, and fuel. Considering the details you have given us, someone can plainly begin to believe that you aren't so top notch on your maintenance. Meaning that you are most likely creating these problems for yourself. Civics thrive on maintenance and will last a long time if done right, but you will never get anywhere with one if you don't. Apart from this I would also suggest that you run the appropriate tests when trying to troubleshoot, not a code scanner *although sometimes they can help in leading you to where the problem is*. The appropriate tests in this case would be ignition, fuel, and vacuum tests.

 

[lethal6]

you don't understand what i'm saying.
whether it's maintenance or not is irrelevant

the point is that I don't have the money to go buy and replace a load of parts that aren't necessarily causing the problem at hand.
I'm trying to find out how to TROUBLESHOOT the different components of the systems. Isn't that what you're telling people to do with that comment you have in your signature?.

The problem lies with the fact that if the car isn't up to par with simple maintenance items then you are chasing circles trying to figure out a problem. The first law of troubleshooting is to get the simple and obvious things out of the way first. In this case since you have already done the blatantly obvious things like fuses and scan for codes, what is next would be maintenance items that are quick, cheap, easy, and extremely important. Plugs, cap, rotor, and wires would run you under $50.

To answer the question from earlier, yes these items can definitely give you the symptoms that you are describing. With out clean and proper spark a vehicle with a combustion engine in it won't run correctly or not at all.

 

[RonJ]

'nuff said.

 

[00siboy]

OP pull a spark plug and the dizzy cap and inspect them. If there is any abnormal wear or buildup on the terminals then replace parts as necessary. No need to randomly replace parts that MIGHT be the problem, that's not diagnostics. Along with checking the ignition components you need to check fuel pressure. Bogging on quick acceleration and stalling can be symptoms of low fuel pressure. Plus bad ignition components will usually set a misfire code for one cylinder, where in this case it sounds like there is a common issue with all cylinders.

BTW what year civic and engine? Miles?

 

[RonJ]

OP pull a spark plug and the dizzy cap and inspect them.

Definitely should be done.

No need to randomly replace parts that MIGHT be the problem

Please ignore this false comment^. It's just plain bad advice.

If the ignition parts are old (plugs, wires, cap, rotor) or you don't know how old they are, replace them. You won't always be able to a see problem with them.

This is NOT replacing parts randomly. It's called basic maintenance of the ignition system, the most common parts to fail and cause misfire problems.

Along with checking the ignition components you need to check fuel pressure. Bogging on quick acceleration and stalling can be symptoms of low fuel pressure. Plus bad ignition components will usually set a misfire code for one cylinder, where in this case it sounds like there is a common issue with all cylinders.

Again, this^ is just plain bad information. Either ignition system problems or low fuel pressure can set a misfire code, but in neither case does this always happen, so you can't say the lack of a misfire code favors one over the other.

 

[SpeedTechnik]

Definitely should be done.



Please ignore this false comment^. It's just plain bad advice.

If the ignition parts are old (plugs, wires, cap, rotor) or you don't know how old they are, replace them. You won't always be able to a see problem with them.

This is NOT replacing parts randomly. It's called basic maintenance of the ignition system, the most common parts to fail and cause misfire problems.



Again, this^ is just plain bad information. Either ignition system problems or low fuel pressure can set a misfire code, but in neither case does this always happen, so you can't say the lack of a misfire code favors one over the other.

Couldnt have posted this better myself, nuff said.

 

[Blake.]

Already pulled the plugs and they look new. Havent looked in the cap yet.
I'll check that and the fuel pressure.
205k
98 civic
lx trim IIRC.

 

[00siboy]

All I did was tell him to check stuff before replacing it. Didn't say it couldn't be ignition components. Ron I know you know your stuff but it seems like you are just telling him to replace stuff because its just the most likely problem. If he doesn't have money to just throw parts at then he might as well do as much testing as possible before replacing parts.

Keep us updated OP.

you don't understand what i'm saying.
whether it's maintenance or not is irrelevant

the point is that I don't have the money to go buy and replace a load of parts that aren't necessarily causing the problem at hand.
I'm trying to find out how to TROUBLESHOOT the different components of the systems. Isn't that what you're telling people to do with that comment you have in your signature?

 

[RonJ]

If he doesn't have money to maintain his car, then there's no helping him anyway, unless you want to send him some cash.

Again, please understand the difference between basic maintenance of a vehicle and throwing parts at it. They are two different animals. Basic maintenance may be all the car really needs, which in the end is the most important part of having a car and keeping it functional and reliable. It's a lesson that OP is not yet able to understand, so in the end he'll spend more money and time NOT doing the right things.

And what testing do you think he's going to do if he doesn't even understand the extreme importance of a tune up? After all of this discussion, he hasn't even removed the distributor cap and looked inside the distributor. Where's his troubleshooting of the plug wires the ICM and coil? Where's his pictures of the plugs? He has no money so how's he going to test the fuel pressure, etc.?

 

[SpeedTechnik]

If he doesn't have money to maintain his car, then there's no helping him anyway, unless you want to send him some cash.

Again, please understand the difference between basic maintenance of a vehicle and throwing parts at it. They are two different animals. Basic maintenance may be all the car really needs, which in the end is the most important part of having a car and keeping it functional and reliable. It's a lesson that OP is not yet able to understand, so in the end he'll spend more money and time NOT doing the right things.

And what testing do you think he's going to do if he doesn't even understand the extreme importance of a tune up?

x2

 

[00siboy]

Ron you are right, most people asking for help online are just looking for an easy fix and don't want to, or have the resources to, perform the appropriate tests needed to find the problem. He already did some testing so if you would like to outline some more tests for him maybe he will surprise you. Let him at least narrow it down to the tune-up parts and know that he is replacing known bad parts.

 

[RonJ]

He already did some testing so if you would like to outline some more tests for him maybe he will surprise you. Let him at least narrow it down to the tune-up parts and know that he is replacing known bad parts.

Based on my experience working tech forums, people making threads come in wide range of receptiveness to advice. Ironically, some of the least receptive people are also the least knowledgeable. And there's no changing their minds. They make a thread begging for advice, yet dismiss advice without any knowledge or understanding to do so. I have learned to recognize this type quickly, and I just cut my ties with the thread.

On the other hand, if a member is open to advice and intelligent enough to learn, I'm extremely willing to help people, if you look at my track record of tech posts.