My first Honda. Need some advice. I have a few doubts and concerns.

[toptiercivic]

Hello everyone,

Its a great pleasure to be part of the forums.

Long story short, I just recently picked up a 97 Civic LX. 1 owner. 57K original miles. Car was bought brand new from an old lady that drove it to the grocery store and back for 17 years. Around 54K miles she did a complete tune up of the car; new tires (wheel alignment has been done), brakes, rotors, spark plugs, and wires. Beside a few stains here and there the engine is in amazing condition. She traded in the car at 56K miles and so far I have only given it 1K in the past month. II fell in love with the car as soon as I saw it. I have always been a huge fan of Honda's but more so with the older generation models.

I am seeking the guidance and help of everyone in the forums. I want to keep this car for a very long time and I want to maintain its integrity. In comparison to its original owner, I drive around a lot. I drive on average 65-70 miles a day so this may have a huge impact on the car considering its driving conditions from the past 17 years. I do drive mostly highway and although the car sounds and feels great I have a few concerns that have been brought to my attention and I need everyone's advice moving forward.

Here we go...

1. Transmission fluid. Car has never had a Transmission fluid flush or change. This car does have a auto trans and the fluid is 17 years old. Should I get it professionally flushed and refilled? If so, which method would be best?

2. Timing belt, water pump, and misc. belts (serpentine, belt tensioner, actuator belt, etc.) I am very confused regarding this topic. I figure change all the belts since to get to the timing belt and water pump you need to go through most if not ALL of the belt. Should this be changed depending on miles or time? Thoughts? Opinions?

3. BG44K Full System Flush? I was thinking about doing a full system flush and clean out any possible residue, gunk, carbon buildup that could have been built up over its current lifespan. This system flush includes the fuel additive, cleaning the throttle body, cleaning the upper/lower cylinders, injectors, etc. I hear that Honda personally recommends this on their vehicles. Thoughts?

4. Low idle. My car idles really low to the point that its makes a weird rumbling noise. This doesn't happen all the time but when it does I have noticed its because the idle fluctuates a lot when at a red light or at a complete stop. This occasionally happens when I go in reverse as well. This all happens under 1,000 RPMs.

5. Engine coolant & thermostat. Should I get this done? Thoughts? Opinion?

6. Brake fluid flush. Should I get this done? Thoughts? Opinions?

7. Power steering flush. Should I get this done? Thoughts? Opinions?

8. Starter. Sometimes when I start the car there is a small stall/hesitation of maybe 3-5 seconds before the car turns starts up and turns on. This occurs maybe 4 out of 10 start ups. Most of the time It starts up no problem without any hesitations.

9. Highway driving. Are these cars meant to handle sustained high RPMS (3500-4000) for a long period of time?

Of course I am open to any other suggestions and opinions. I really want to keep this car in the best
shape of its life.

This is one hell of a post lol. Thank you all for all your help and advice.

 

[OGstackadolla]

I love that every dealership says the car was driven to church/store by a little old lady

If they have no records of maintenance, I would take their words lightly.

Fluids, if they haven't been changed or you notice they look a bit dark, flush it out. Check the brake fluid, oil, water/coolant, p/s fluid, blinker fluid, trans fluid, etc..

Belts are changed either way, it could be time, or it could be miles. Again, if they look warn and you don't want to chance it; change them too.

Low idle could be a dirty iacv (intake air control valve) or maybe a vacuum leak.

Our cars can handle higher RPMs. When I drive to Buttonwillow, my RPM's are averaging 4,500 for about 5 hours straight, then I track all day so it's between 6,000 to 8,000 for long periods of time, then I drive back home at 4,500. Our engines can rev.... Oh, and I have over 160k miles on my car; daily driven, track abused.

Honestly, since it sounds like you don't have a great knowledge of repairs, so I would recommend getting a buddy to look at it for you, or take it to a shop you trust for a diagnostic. It may save you a lot of time and frustrations.

 

[OGstackadolla]

I made a meme

 

[toptiercivic]

Thanks!! I really appreciate the input and the meme LOL!!

The great news is that I do have proof of all the work that was done on the car and based off of those receipts there is a lot of things I don't have to worry about like for example new tires, brakes, wheel alignment etc etc essentially everything I mentioned in my post. However I do not have any record of anything done to the fluids and belts/water pump. I did take the car to a really good friend of mine who is a Honda fanatic and I trust him a lot. He owns a 89 Honda Accord that runs like new...Very nice car.

Anyways, he checked all the fluids, belts, suspension, everything you can think of and he said everything checked out ok but based off of my original post I have heard so many stories saying that "Belts and fluids should be changed not on miles but on time" so I am very confused. I am even more confused about how now I am driving more so I wonder if this puts more wear and tare on the moving belts.

I really appreciate your advice and input.


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[OGstackadolla]

Anytime something is used, it's being damaged, for the most part. Time will crack belts and make them brittle, but constant use will also have it's say in how long a specific part lasts. Just like oil changes

 

[lethal6]

Good rule of thumb is to flush the brake fluid at least every 2 years. Belt time depends on the condition and where the car is stored. I would replace them just in case. Why not? They are very cheap and it won't hurt.

Personally what I would do is flush the brake fluid, flush the coolant, change the thermostat, do a full tune up (plugs, wires, cap, rotor, fuel filter, air filter, pollen filter, and pcv valve if it has one. I would also flush the tranny fluid and do a filter service on it if it has one. This is on every car that I purchase used unless it is from a very good friend and I know for a doubt the maintenance history. Every thing listed is cheap for these cars. That is one of the reasons they are so popular...that and the great gas mileage.

 

[toptiercivic]

Definitely good to know. I got a quote from a trusted mechanic shop and just on labor alone they quoted me $400.00 dollars on changing all the belts, water pump, timing belt, serpentine belt, actuator belt etc. This price doesn't include parts. Does that sound right?

Should I do the full service at a Honda dealership? At least for the complete system flush and changing all the belts?


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[Intertwined]

sounds about right for a shops labor. I had multiple quotes on average of $250 just to do the timing belt/water pump just the labor.

like previously mentioned whenever you get a used car do all the normal maintenance. belts and fluids.

as far as high rpm's 3500 isn't high. at least not for what im used to, I shift at 4500 daily driving. Honda motors are rev monsters even in the SOHC they like the high revs.

as for the idle do like stated above. clean the iacv if it has one and change out the pcv valve if it has one.

and getting maintenance done at Honda doesn't hurt, but its usually not cheap either. If your friend is a Honda fanatic maybe he could do the work for you for less??? unless he pays someone else to do his work as well.

 

[CO671]

Hello everyone,

Its a great pleasure to be part of the forums.

Long story short, I just recently picked up a 97 Civic LX. 1 owner. 57K original miles. Car was bought brand new from an old lady that drove it to the grocery store and back for 17 years. Around 54K miles she did a complete tune up of the car; new tires (wheel alignment has been done), brakes, rotors, spark plugs, and wires. Beside a few stains here and there the engine is in amazing condition. She traded in the car at 56K miles and so far I have only given it 1K in the past month. II fell in love with the car as soon as I saw it. I have always been a huge fan of Honda's but more so with the older generation models.

I am seeking the guidance and help of everyone in the forums. I want to keep this car for a very long time and I want to maintain its integrity. In comparison to its original owner, I drive around a lot. I drive on average 65-70 miles a day so this may have a huge impact on the car considering its driving conditions from the past 17 years. I do drive mostly highway and although the car sounds and feels great I have a few concerns that have been brought to my attention and I need everyone's advice moving forward.

Here we go...

1. Transmission fluid. Car has never had a Transmission fluid flush or change. This car does have a auto trans and the fluid is 17 years old. Should I get it professionally flushed and refilled? If so, which method would be best?

2. Timing belt, water pump, and misc. belts (serpentine, belt tensioner, actuator belt, etc.) I am very confused regarding this topic. I figure change all the belts since to get to the timing belt and water pump you need to go through most if not ALL of the belt. Should this be changed depending on miles or time? Thoughts? Opinions?

3. BG44K Full System Flush? I was thinking about doing a full system flush and clean out any possible residue, gunk, carbon buildup that could have been built up over its current lifespan. This system flush includes the fuel additive, cleaning the throttle body, cleaning the upper/lower cylinders, injectors, etc. I hear that Honda personally recommends this on their vehicles. Thoughts?

4. Low idle. My car idles really low to the point that its makes a weird rumbling noise. This doesn't happen all the time but when it does I have noticed its because the idle fluctuates a lot when at a red light or at a complete stop. This occasionally happens when I go in reverse as well. This all happens under 1,000 RPMs.

5. Engine coolant & thermostat. Should I get this done? Thoughts? Opinion?

6. Brake fluid flush. Should I get this done? Thoughts? Opinions?

7. Power steering flush. Should I get this done? Thoughts? Opinions?

8. Starter. Sometimes when I start the car there is a small stall/hesitation of maybe 3-5 seconds before the car turns starts up and turns on. This occurs maybe 4 out of 10 start ups. Most of the time It starts up no problem without any hesitations.

9. Highway driving. Are these cars meant to handle sustained high RPMS (3500-4000) for a long period of time?

Of course I am open to any other suggestions and opinions. I really want to keep this car in the best
shape of its life.

This is one hell of a post lol. Thank you all for all your help and advice.

1) Transmission fluid: If it's automatic, stick to OEM Honda ATF, nothing else.

2) According to the FSM, the timing belt should definitely be changed at 10k miles. If it worries you, 60k is also the first interval recommendation. The brand Gates also manufacture OEM Honda belts. So if you go OEM with your timing belt kit (water pump, etc it's going to be the same thing as just buying a Gates set. I purchased mine from www.RockAuto.com

3) If your local dealership recommends it, then might as well. I personally have no experience in that.

4) If the idle drops, then there could be a vacuum leak, the IACV may need to be cleaned or there's other problems around the intake manifold.

5) Of course.... If you just purchase a car, flush and service all the fluids properly.

6) See above

7) See above

8) Clean the terminals on the starter

9) Of course, Honda's are high revving engines to begin with. Typically, high revving highway driving is good for engines because it keeps things circulating and healthy under normal operating conditions.

 

[RonJ]

There's hope when one has both doubts and concerns. Too much naive optimism is the kiss of death.

 

[toptiercivic]

and getting maintenance done at Honda doesn't hurt, but its usually not cheap either. If your friend is a Honda fanatic maybe he could do the work for you for less??? unless he pays someone else to do his work as well.

Thanks for the tips. My mechanic is a very reliable person in the sense that he knows his Honda parts and he has a lot of knowledge but unfortunately he is a very cheap person and a little lazy. He has the mindset that if a car gets you to point A and to point B with a few squeaks, beeps, and rattles but it still got you there than its good enough for him and that's where his laziness comes in. Instead of dropping money on good parts he buys used after market parts that may be a temporary fix but as long as it works in the moment that's good enough for him. Its nice if your trying to save money and maybe if you don't really care about your car he is a great person to go to. I pretty much go to him to make sure nothing is leaking and the car is drive-able.

1)Transmission fluid: If it's automatic, stick to OEM Honda ATF, nothing else.

4) If the idle drops, then there could be a vacuum leak, the IACV may need to be cleaned or there's other problems around the intake manifold.

5) Of course.... If you just purchase a car, flush and service all the fluids properly.

Thanks for the all the advice. I am now more convinced about changing the all the belts/timing belt/waterpump. I am definitely going to get that done. As far as a full system flush, should all the fluids be Honda OEM? As duly noted I understand why the Transmission should be Honda ATF but are the other fluids necessary. At every oil change my usual mechanic just tops them off. I can definitely see why I have to do a coolant flush and a tranny flush but the power steering flush and brake fluid flush I wonder if I can do this down the line later? My local mechanic when I do my oil change he tops off all the liquids but with no name brand stuff. Could this be an issue?

The throttle body was a little dirty. I may have to look into the IACV as you said.

There's hope when one has both doubts and concerns. Too much naive optimism is the kiss of death.

I am so happy someone shares my opinion!

 

[toptiercivic]

Update

I call a very trusted mechanic shop around my house. My father (2008 M45x) and brother (2003 Honda CRV) religiously go to this guy to do repairs on their cars and I have never heard a complaint from them so I figured why not and I decided to get a price quote.

The power steering flush and brake fluid flush he recommended at 85K.

I decided to go with the following...

1. Change timing belt, water pump, and all other misc. belts (serpentine belt, actuator, tensioner, etc)
- - - This is going to run me at $650.00 + tax.

2. Complete trans power flush and refill (Honda OEM ATF) ($210.00 + tax)
3. Complete engine coolant flush + new thermostat (BG44K Engine coolant) ($70.00 + tax)
4. Can of BG44K inside the gas tank to clean injectors ($25.00 + tax)
5. Oil filter and oil change ($25.00 + tax. Mobil 1 regular non synthetic)
6. Check gaskets, seals, etc. Complete thorough check up of the engine while changing belts.
7. Check fluctuating idle --- Clean IACV.
8. Clean starter terminals.

Total: $1,050.00 roughly with tax.

Thoughts?

 

[TokyoSkies]

Thanks for the tips. My mechanic is a very reliable person in the sense that he knows his Honda parts and he has a lot of knowledge but unfortunately he is a very cheap person and a little lazy. He has the mindset that if a car gets you to point A and to point B with a few squeaks, beeps, and rattles but it still got you there than its good enough for him and that's where his laziness comes in. Instead of dropping money on good parts he buys used after market parts that may be a temporary fix but as long as it works in the moment that's good enough for him. Its nice if your trying to save money and maybe if you don't really care about your car he is a great person to go to. I pretty much go to him to make sure nothing is leaking and the car is drive-able.



Thanks for the all the advice. I am now more convinced about changing the all the belts/timing belt/waterpump. I am definitely going to get that done. As far as a full system flush, should all the fluids be Honda OEM? As duly noted I understand why the Transmission should be Honda ATF but are the other fluids necessary. At every oil change my usual mechanic just tops them off. I can definitely see why I have to do a coolant flush and a tranny flush but the power steering flush and brake fluid flush I wonder if I can do this down the line later? My local mechanic when I do my oil change he tops off all the liquids but with no name brand stuff. Could this be an issue?

The throttle body was a little dirty. I may have to look into the IACV as you said.



I am so happy someone shares my opinion!

The only fluid that I would absolutely recommend sticking with OEM, is ATF. Everything else, off brand is just fine (cheap 50/50 coolant is the same as Honda's). Oil, go with a good brand, but it doesn't have to be Honda's. If I had this car with that low of mileage, I'd run Mobil 1. Doesn't have to be synthetic at all (I wouldn't run synthetic in this daily driver.. no real reason to).

Update

I call a very trusted mechanic shop around my house. My father (2008 M45x) and brother (2003 Honda CRV) religiously go to this guy to do repairs on their cars and I have never heard a complaint from them so I figured why not and I decided to get a price quote.

The power steering flush and brake fluid flush he recommended at 85K.

I decided to go with the following...

1. Change timing belt, water pump, and all other misc. belts (serpentine belt, actuator, tensioner, etc)
- - - This is going to run me at $650.00 + tax.

2. Complete trans power flush and refill (Honda OEM ATF) ($210.00 + tax)
3. Complete engine coolant flush + new thermostat (BG44K Engine coolant) ($70.00 + tax)
4. Can of BG44K inside the gas tank to clean injectors ($25.00 + tax)
5. Oil filter and oil change ($25.00 + tax. Mobil 1 regular non synthetic)
6. Check gaskets, seals, etc. Complete thorough check up of the engine while changing belts.
7. Check fluctuating idle --- Clean IACV.
8. Clean starter terminals.

Total: $1,050.00 roughly with tax.

Thoughts?

All of those prices are good, and it sounds like this guy knows what he's doing. After all of this, the car should be in great driving condition.

 

[toptiercivic]

The only fluid that I would absolutely recommend sticking with OEM, is ATF. Everything else, off brand is just fine (cheap 50/50 coolant is the same as Honda's). Oil, go with a good brand, but it doesn't have to be Honda's. If I had this car with that low of mileage, I'd run Mobil 1. Doesn't have to be synthetic at all (I wouldn't run synthetic in this daily driver.. no real reason to).

All of those prices are good, and it sounds like this guy knows what he's doing. After all of this, the car should be in great driving condition.

Thanks. I feel very comfortable and very content with the price considering everything he is going to be doing to the car. I am sure I can get all this done somewhere else cheaper but this guy is all about the build quality in his work and I feel very comfortable knowing that. Now I see why my dad leaves his car with this guy all the time.

Maybe after this job I can start working on the cosmetics. I want to keep the car stock and maybe repaint it down the road.

Now after tackling all the big stuff there are a few things that call my attention. I notice that my gas needle fluctuates A LOT. Is this normal? I can never tell how much gas I have left in my tank lol.

 

[CO671]

Thanks for the all the advice. I am now more convinced about changing the all the belts/timing belt/waterpump. I am definitely going to get that done. As far as a full system flush, should all the fluids be Honda OEM? As duly noted I understand why the Transmission should be Honda ATF but are the other fluids necessary. At every oil change my usual mechanic just tops them off. I can definitely see why I have to do a coolant flush and a tranny flush but the power steering flush and brake fluid flush I wonder if I can do this down the line later? My local mechanic when I do my oil change he tops off all the liquids but with no name brand stuff. Could this be an issue?

The throttle body was a little dirty. I may have to look into the IACV as you said.

You want at least the powersteering and the ATF (Automatic transmission fluid) to be OEM because of the sensitivity in their construction requiring OEM fluids. Coolant, Oil, brake fluid can be the regular auto parts store universal brand. If you ever closely read the labels, some ATF and Powersteering fluids will say (NOT FOR HONDA/ACURA)

 

[Osiris19]

You want at least the powersteering and the ATF (Automatic transmission fluid) to be OEM because of the sensitivity in their construction requiring OEM fluids. Coolant, Oil, brake fluid can be the regular auto parts store universal brand. If you ever closely read the labels, some ATF and Powersteering fluids will say (NOT FOR HONDA/ACURA)

This is something I just learned in school. Today's automatics are very picky on the kind of fluid they require due to the type of detergents and other chemicals in them. Honda fluid is specifically designed for use in their trans and when you use another fluid, the clutches can't be engaged properly to provide the forward motion needed in the drums.

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