Slow cranking

[nd4sped]

I have built so many motors and transmissions and not to mention my own so many times. But this is the one time I am stumped and honestly quite tired of working on it.

Problem: Engine cranks terribly slow or not at all.

What has been done:
-I initially though it was the starter, it tested bad, only pulled about 40 amps duriing testing. (its the original started too, lasted 13 years). Had it replaced and since I have warrantied the starter 3 times. (Advance garbage). Went to Oriellys and got a new one from them.
-Warrantied my battery out from Oriellys since it had a bad cell in it as well.
-Battery is relocated in the trunk, checked and replaced the positive terminal as it was in pretty bad shape.
-Also ran a direct ground cable through the car (4 gauge) from the battery all the way to the engine bay and is attached to the trans mount near the started. Also has a secondary ground strap (4 gauge) from the tranny mount to the chassis.

-Resistance from starter to body is 0.00x
-Resistance from starter to battery is 0.00x

-Battery voltage is good on remote at the starter, also good with the key start.

-Eliminated the possibility of the transmission being a binding issue by mounting a spare clutch housing only, then attached the starter and it cranks slowly, no change.
-I have a hand held remote starter which allows me to bypass the ignition switch (basically a wire from the power post on the starter to the switch terminal on the starter. Cranks slowly, no change.

-Pulled the motor again, rechecked torque on the crank and rods. Turns by hand with my long 1/2 ratchet.
-Pistons move freely by hand so they are not binding.
-Measured crank runout, measurements are perfect with 0 runout on all mains except 1 but its WELL within the service limit.
-Even replaced the bearings with brand new King bearings and rechecked clearances and torque.

There are other things I have done, all I can think of at the moment. Gonna take a shower and go to dinner.

Im open to ideas, suggestions, questions.

Short block consists of the following:

-ARP main studs
-Oversized pistons +0.020" ,bores are matched to the pistons.
-King Standard bearings.
-OEM oversided piston rings. Gapped before installation.

 

[RonJ]

If you run 2 power wires from the the (+) battery post to the starter motor and solenoid terminals, does the starter crank the engine strongly and quickly?

 

[nd4sped]

If you run 2 power wires from the the (+) battery post to the starter motor and solenoid terminals, does the starter crank the engine strongly and quickly?

Thought I mentioned this initially, but yes this has been done several times. I have a handheld remote starter so I can crank the engine when working from the engine bay.

 

[RonJ]

Thought I mentioned this initially, but yes this has been done several times. I have a handheld remote starter so I can crank the engine when working from the engine bay.

It's not mentioned at all in your first post. State exactly how you did what I asked. What you say above^ also does not answer the question.

 

[nd4sped]

It's not mentioned at all in your first post. State exactly how you did what I asked. What you say above^ also does not answer the question.

Not sure how it doesn't answer your question. However I have updated the original post.

 

[nd4sped]

I am well aware how to jump a starter,yes this has been done and no it cranks slowly.

 

[nd4sped]

No wonder this site has basically died. I tell this guy I have jumped the starter multiple times and he denies that I have done it or even know how.

I posted because I'm looking for fresh ideas as i am out of ideas.

I would begin to talk trash about this guy but its not my style nor will it get my anywhere with getting the car running. Also I never stated I know all the answers, because if I did, I would not post a question about it because the problem would have been solved.

But for his reference, this is a remote starter..

 

[itsmycookie]

you can click the

button on his posts if you think they're rude and want to report him

also what would happen if you jump started the car?
slow crank just sounds like a low battery to me. if you jump it and it starts up right away i would think that would point to the battery being the problem.

maybe a wire short?

i dunno much bout electronics so i'm just guessing

 

[nd4sped]

i don;t have any good ideas

but you can click the

button on his posts if you think they're rude.

my only guess at your problem is that a wire could be shorting out.
since it wouldn't show up as resistance, and although i don't really know much about what you're saying i'm guessing that the battery/starter both are good when they're not on the car.

also what would happen if you jump started the car?
slow crank just sounds like a low battery to me. if you jump it and it starts up right away I would think that would point to the battery being the problem.

I pulled the harness and went over everything, I did this as a lot of the plastic loom was deteriorated and ugly. I did fear there was a issue with a ground and spent three days sorting out my harness. There are no shorts at all.

Also I have a direct 4 gauge Borg Warner main cable running from the battery in the trunk to the engine bay and this has been there for at least 8 years now. I pulled the carpet and inspected the line to ensure it wasn't damaged also.

The battery is brand new, the starter is brand new as well. Both are less than a month old.

If I use my Ford Escape to jump, the cranking speed is no different.

Thanks for your input

 

[nd4sped]

Here are a few photos to get an idea of the wiring, its more than suitable, the only cable I have added recently was the red 4 gauge cable to improve the grounding. Where the lines are joined with eyelets, they are meshed together and then solders and filled into the eyelets.

 

[nd4sped]

Where she is right now

 

[nd4sped]

Let me put it in simple terminology for you. I had the battery sitting on the valve cover, I directly connected the battery positive to the starter post. I then connected the hand held starter from the positive post to the ignition switch post. Battery was grounded to the engine mount.

The starter does not crank the engine fast enough.

Shall I make a video for you so you can understand me more clearly? Which by the way I'm not doing tonight, its 9:30PM already.

So all in all, you are not understanding that it is NOT the battery or the starter.

 

[RonJ]

Let me put it in simple terminology for you. I had the battery sitting on the valve cover, I directly connected the battery positive to the starter post. I then connected the hand held starter from the positive post to the ignition switch post. Battery was grounded to the engine mount.

Finally. Why has it taken you so damn long to provide these simple details about the test. Until now, it's been completely unclear what was done. Did you want to keep this information a secret? That's a great strategy for a tech thread.

What engine mount was used as ground for the battery sitting on the valve cover? What happens if you instead use the transmission or the body of the starter as ground for the battery on the valve cover?

So all in all, you are not understanding that it is NOT the battery or the starter.

So all in all, what exact information have you posted that rules out either of these^ conclusively?

 

[nd4sped]

Finally. Why has it taken you so damn long to provide these simple details about the test. Until now, it's been completely unclear what was done. Did you want to keep this information a secret? That's a great strategy for a tech thread.

What engine mount was used as ground for the battery on the valve cover? What happens if you instead use the transmission or the body of the starter as ground for the battery?

The transmission mount is where it was grounded. Same location as you can see in previous photos.

 

[nd4sped]

I have no idea what photo you're talking about. Care to direct me? Or do you want to make people work very hard to help you? That's another great strategy when you make a tech thread.

Did you try the tests I mentioned? Or is another strategy of yours to evade answering questions?

Also answer this:

On the first page. I have tested the starter out of the car in my vice on the work bench. I also had it tested at O'Riellys before I bought it.

I have also used the starter body as a ground, the flange that comes off to attach the harness. That piece is not on this starter, I have also grounded directly to the transmission case as well.

BTW your sarcasm isn't necessary, so I would appreciate it if you left it out.

 

[RonJ]

On the first page. I have tested the starter out of the car in my vice on the work bench. I also had it tested at O'Riellys before I bought it.

These^ are both bench tests without load, right? A bad starter can pass such tests.

I have also used the starter body as a ground, the flange that comes off to attach the harness. That piece is not on this starter, I have also grounded directly to the transmission case as well.

From the tests you have detailed, there are three possible causes for the problem.

1) The starter is bad (not ruled out by no load tests).

2) The battery is bad (any conclusive tests to rule this out?).

3) The engine does not turn freely (any conclusive tests to rule this out?).

BTW your sarcasm isn't necessary, so I would appreciate it if you left it out.

My sarcasm disappears when you start providing clear and detailed answers to all questions. Anything less is you being arrogant or ignorant.

 

[nd4sped]

These^ are both bench tests without load, right? A bad starter can pass such tests.

From the tests you have detailed, there are three possible causes for the problem.

1) The starter is bad (not ruled out by no load tests).

2) The battery is bad (any conclusive tests to rule this out?).

3) The engine does not turn freely (any conclusive tests to rule this out?).

My sarcasm disappears when you start providing clear and detailed answers to all questions. Anything less is you being arrogant or ignorant.

The starter is new, I tested it before I purchased, bench tested after installation due to it cranking the engine slowly.
The battery is new and I have tested it twice since purchase to ensure I haven't damaged cells due to deep cycling it a few times from all the cranking.
The motor turns by hand, I use a long 1/2" ratchet to do it, it is a little hard to turn but its smooth. I have pulled the engine a second time and remeasured EVERYTHING. I even installed new bearings.

I am asking you to refrain from the sarcasm, I don't care what you have to control just keep it to yourself. If it means not putting in any input then so be it. But if you want to help then help without the attitude. The attitude doesn't fix anything.

 

[RonJ]

The starter is new, I tested it before I purchased, bench tested after installation due to it cranking the engine slowly.

New or reman? Parts can be bad right out of the box. Bench testing doesn't mean good.

The battery is new and I have tested it twice since purchase to ensure I haven't damaged cells due to deep cycling it a few times from all the cranking.

How was the battery tested? You need to load test it.

The motor turns by hand, I use a long 1/2" ratchet to do it, it is a little hard to turn but its smooth. I have pulled the engine a second time and remeasured EVERYTHING. I even installed new bearings.

Does the engine run fine after it's started? ANY problems besides the slow crank?

I am asking you to refrain from the sarcasm, I don't care what you have to control just keep it to yourself. If it means not putting in any input then so be it. But if you want to help then help without the attitude. The attitude doesn't fix anything.

The attitude is your problem from the start. Carefully read your posts and your arrogant resistance to providing detailed tech information in a tech thread you created. Am I right? Would you now like to apologize for your transgressions?

 

[XpL0d3r]

The site has died because members like you fail at writing clearly, thinking clearly, and reading for comprehension. You and members like you frustrate knowledgeable members and kill tech sites. Stop whining and start writing clearly and reading for comprehension.

WRONG. Have you seen HT? I don't even need to go into details but compared to CC it makes us looks like freakin geniuses

Though, honestly... You and members like you frustrate members looking for help, and kill tech sites. Stop being a douche and start writing without a sarcastic, snobby tone.

There, now that all that has been taken care of... thread has been cleaned up. OT posts will be deleted, so please keep it ON TOPIC.

Thanks!

 

[RonJ]

WRONG. Have you seen HT? I don't even need to go into details but compared to CC it makes us looks like freakin geniuses Though, honestly... You and members like you frustrate members looking for help, and kill tech sites.

Haha...If you'd like to compare, HT tech forums that I frequent remain very active.

Stop being a douche and start writing without a sarcastic, snobby tone.

At CC, read my tech posts and note my helpful tech track record. You may not like how I responded to the OP, but it was fully justified. I also attempted to guide him to a tech solution based on his own test results. The OP successfully derailed his own thread by not supplying adequate information and by either ignoring or not understanding his own diagnostic tests. His last comment sums it up nicely:

The starter is good, the battery is good. Move along to the next idea.

The OP's view of a tech thread is tell me what I want to hear rather than what the diagnostic tests indicate. This type of member ignorance kills a tech forum not the members who regularly provide tech help.