95 civc starts sometimes, turns off on its own?

[nabeelsadiq]

I have a 95 Honda Civic ex coupe, automatic, has about 140,000 miles on it. My dad left the lights on and the battery drained. Gave it a jump and brought it home. 5 hours later, car starts normally, and I drive 5 minutes away. An hour later I try to start the car to come home, but it only cranks. We jump it for like 20 minutes and it's still only cranking. Gas tank is about half full and we put HEAT in it( weather has been in single digits all week).

2 days later, we replace the battery, because the old one tested bad. Then the car starts without a problem. We bring it home and put it in the garage. An hour later, car refuses to start again, only cranks.

The next day, car starts on the first try. I leave it on park to heat up. The car turns off on its own in about 20 minutes. Tried a few times, and failed to get it to start. At night, I give it another try and starts on the first try. I drive around the block and rev up the engine. The smoke coming out of the exhaust pipe seemed thicker and whiter than usual.

The next afternoon, the car starts on the first try. I picked up my mom, brought her home. Put the car in park, 2 minutes later, the car turns off on its own. I try to start it, and it only cranks. 7 hours later, the car starts just fine.

My Dad thinks its has something to do with the engine not getting the fuel. The car has been inside the garage last couple of days, so if the fuel lines were partially frozen, wouldn't they be all thawed out by now? Even so, why would it start at all then? Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks for reading the long question.

 

[RonJ]

Listen for whether the fuel pump primes and whether there's spark at all 4 plugs when the engine won't start.

Also check for CEL codes.

 

[nabeelsadiq]

Well, it's starting fine for now. I should also mention that there appears to be significant leakage from the distributor. And the car has been doing this pulsing thing for a while. You can see that the lights in the car pulse from bright to dull. It's been like that for about a year now. Similarly the battery light flickers too. Is it possible that the distributor is responsible for this and the no-start/turn-off?

 

[RonJ]

The car may have multiple separate problems.

Replace the alternator.

Oil leakage? Inside or outside the distributor? Post pictures.

 

[nabeelsadiq]

Pictures of the leak

The car has started fine the last three times I tried. Why do you suggest I replace the alternator? The battery is charged and the belt on the alternator is running. Well, the battery was purchased 3 days ago, so maybe it hasn't had a chance to die yet.

And I don't have a very good camera, but here is the picture of the leak:

Thanks

 

[RonJ]

Why do you suggest I replace the alternator? The battery is charged and the belt on the alternator is running. Well, the battery was purchased 3 days ago, so maybe it hasn't had a chance to die yet.

And the car has been doing this pulsing thing for a while. You can see that the lights in the car pulse from bright to dull. It's been like that for about a year now. Similarly the battery light flickers too.

The "battery" warning light does not indicate a bad battery; it indicates a problem with the charging system (alternator).

 

[RonJ]

And I don't have a very good camera, but here is the picture of the leak

Remove the distributor cap, rotor, and inner dust cover. Do you see any oil inside the distributor?

 

[nabeelsadiq]

Here is a better picture of the external leak:

I took off the cap and found some oil in there. I am gonna wait for my Dad to take the cover and rotor out because frankly, i'm scared i'm going to screw something up.

I could probably get the o-ring replaced to stop the leak but it would probably be a better investment to replace the whole stock distributor right?

 

[VileMisanthropy]

RonJ is right, you may have several separate problems. In order to properly diagnose the problem your experiencing you have to get down to the basics.Fuel,Spark and Compression. Now you probably have compression even if you have a bad head gasket (I don't' suspect that you do). Check your gauges especially your Temperature gauge! if your card is over heating it will shut off and require coll down time before it can be started again, this could be low coolant levels, an external leak being a hose or the radiator, could be the thermostat and lastly it very will could be a head gasket, if your over heating let me know and i can help you diagnose the coolant system. Also any trouble codes (check Engine Light) be be able to help you narrow down the problem if you have multiple misfires due to bad spark etc. so lets start with the basics!

Fuel:
Check the fuel pump: When you turn on the ignition (before cranking) wait and listen to hear the seldom humming of the fuel pump coming from the rear while sitting in the drivers seat. You will hear the fuel pump prime for 3-5 seconds and then shut off when complete. If you are unsure of this have someone help you by turning on the ignition for you and place your hand under the car and rest it on the bottom of the fuel tank and feel and hear the vibration.

Fuel filter: When was your fuel filter last replaced? This is a cheap and inexpensive part that requires maintenance (replacing) every time you do a regular tune up (sparks, wires, timing belt etc.) usually every 80,000kms. If this hasn't been serviced there could be a blockage inside because the filter is fuel of s**t coming off the inside of the steel take form regular corrosion and what ever comes in the fuel we are presented with now days ( i always put 91-94 octane in once a month to clean and burn any carbon deposits in the combustion chamber and through the fuel lines.) $10-20 bucks i would grab one anyways and check it off the list.

Another way to make sure you have fuel to the injectors is to take a 17mm wrench and remove the fuel line going into the Fuel Rail (be careful not to loose the 2 copper washers that seal this connection from leaks, you wouldn't want a leak to drip down onto the HOT catalytic converter and cause a fire in the middle of the highway) Have someone help you by turning on the ignition power... if you get a constant flow of fuel out of that line then check it off. ( mind if your fuel pump is ON ITS WAY OUT this may not help you as the fuel pump will sometimes work or not work randomly until you decide to replace it).

Dirty injectors: After many miles on regular 89 octane or worse and driving it easy carbon builds up on the injectors and the become clogged. Again filling up with 91-94 octane will help, but i would also recommend servicing your fuel and combustion chambers with a $10 can of SeaFoam. This stuff works great its a high purity petroleum product thats burns HOT and CLEAN and will blast away any carbon in the chambers in the process of regular combustion.

Next lets move to SPARK.

Battery: I know you said you got a new battery but were going to go through it anyways because it is part of the electrical system that feeds the spark. This isn't your problem if the starter is cranking but...Take a volt meter and place it on the battery terminals, you should be reading 13+ volts if it is, check the battery off and move to the next step. Step 2: Get the car started and then take a 10mm wrench and remove the ground lead off the battery terminal, if the engine dies then you have a bad alternator because the alternator should be producing enough power to run the engine spark and fuel system without that battery.

Distributor: Never mind the oil leak, all old engines seep oil and any oil leak will not cease on engine form running (as long as your oil level remain in between the two dots on the dipstick) Although this does indicate that perhaps someone maybe a previous owner had played with the timing and it may need to be Advance slightly in order to produce SPARK at the require time during the combustion cycle. You can take a 3/8 ratchet with a 6" extension and a 10 or 12mm socket (can't remember the size at this time) and loosen the 3 bolts fixing the distributor to the head, and give a turn forward or back word about a degree each time will tightening and testing. Without a timing light this will take some guess work of trial and error. (this happened to be in the middle of downtown, I had blown the heater hose going into the motor head just under the distributor which required the distributor to be removed in order to replace the hose, upon replacing the distributor I had disturbed the original timing and the engine died in a sputter and pop! luckily I was able to rehearse the possible problem and fix on the side of the road with my hand socket kit form Stanley i always keep in the trunk.

Wires and plugs: When was the last time you serviced your Spark plug wires and Spark plugs? Should again be every 80,000kms. for your tune up. Cheap and easy, wires $35, plugs again about $35. I like to use E3's performance spark plugs for maximum spark and fuel efficiency.

I hope this helps. I may or may not be forgetting someone through all of that info. But keep me posted and ill do what I can.

 

[nabeelsadiq]

Thanks for the post VileMisanthropy,

We had a tune up about two years ago. My dad doesn't exactly remember what was changed other than the spark plugs. The distributor cap looks new too.

I can hear the fuel pump prime. I don't think the fuel filter has ever been changed in the 10 years of owning the car. That's probably what we will change first. But if this is culprit, why would the car start and last for 15-20 minutes?

We actually don't have a multimeter at the moment. We'll pick that up from walmart soon. I did pull the neg cable out after starting the car. The car was still running. Interestingly enough, it wasn't pulsing when the cable was off the battery. I have since read that this is a risky thing to do. It can cause a voltage spike or something. Anyway, the alternator seems to be fine.

The temperature gauge doesn't indicate over heating. It remains well below the half-way mark.

Could it also be possible that the engine is getting too much fuel and flooding? I read a similar problem on some forum, and someone poster this reply:
"Lol! Well after changing or testing just about everything it came down to the coolant temp sensor... When its bad it madue the ICM think that the engine is really cold and the injectors just poor the gas into the motor... Not only the sensor itsself but the wire and connector as well. I had the air filter off so i could see the tbi and watch it spray gas... I knew right away it was way too much... If i gased it it would pop spit and sputter and backfire. After 15-20 min it wad flooding itsself out And the reason it wouldnt restart. As soon as I unplugged the coolant temp sensor the engine smoothed out and the fuel was coming out in a steady stream rather then spraying out. I shut it off several times and restarted it everytime! If this works make sure you check your plugs that they're not burned due to exsesive gas"

By the way, after 2-3 hours after dying, the car starts up instantly without a problem.

Thanks

 

[nabeelsadiq]

how to test icm and coil

Also, does anyone know how to test the ignition control module and the ignition coil on this car? The auto parts stores around my area say that they don't do it. I've heard these things tend to go bad.

Thanks

 

[RonJ]

http://www.team-integra.net/forum/blogs/meltman/299-advanced-ignition-troubleshooting.html

 

[nabeelsadiq]

I took out a spark plug, stuck in a screwdriver and had my Dad try to start the car. I got orange sparks. This points to a bad coil or icm right?