Introduction/d16y5 build

[Joshua Oliver]

Ok guys I'm new here so I'll start off with an introduction.. My names Joshua, I'm 17 years old and I live in Pennsylvania. I own a 98 civic hx coupe, this is my first Honda. Let me start by saying I have a lot of questions. I've been around motors my whole life and have build dozens of quad and dirt bike motors. I'm not an expert on hondas but I do know a little, I'm learning as I go so please excuse me if I mess up somewhere. Constructive criticism is welcomed but if you want too just bust my balls and be a d**k don't even bother commenting. So like I said this is my first Honda, when I bought it I planned on doing a jdm b or h series swap, but ive been shopping and everything is a little out of my budget. So I decided I'll do something a little different and build my d16.. (Yes I know I'm not gonna have a 500 HP monster) but that's not what I'm trying to achieve. I'm looking for help and info to point me in the right direction. I've been around a lot of v8 builds but never a 4 cyl so this is very new too me. I already know what I want so I'll just throw everything down that's on my mind and maybe you guys can help me out.. Ok first off as you all probably know these d series in stock form aren't anything to brag about, I'll be the first one too tell you that its pathetically slow as is.. (258xxx miles, no smoke and doesn't burn oil) I bought this car for 3 reasons, its very very clean, no rust at all. Its partially modded and the price was right on it. I bought it knowing I was going to spend time and money on it, its a solid great base for a great build. The car has new Megan coilovers with extended top hats, Megan lower rear arms, and a Megan subframe brace. The interior is all redone, new seats, wheel, ect. Cosmetically the car has a few dings and could use paint as he sprayed it black (doesn't look terrible just not the best) has the ac delete already. I plan on building the motor before worrying about paint and such. So what I'm looking to achieve with this is a reliable well built motor, I want to get substantial HP/tq gains over stock without killing my reliability. Something that will pull hard in every gear (like I said I know I won't have a monster, just something that has get up and go) I'm on lunch break at work so I can't go as in depth as I'd like but id just like some info on where to start, maybe swap heads? But the y5 has the same big ports as the y8 so is really necessary or not? Also I'm looking to achieve say 200 HP out of this when finished, I'm not cutting any corners, no expense spared. I've been thought to do things right the first time and I have another vehicle to drive in the meantime until I finish this car, so time isn't a problem. Like I said. What would you guys say would be a reasonable setup for what I have in mind.. Is it do able without boost or am I just out of my mind.. I can go more detailed about my plan after I get out of work, just wanted too get some ideas from everyone. Like I said this is my first build so I need all the tips I can get.. Thanks guys

 

[lethal6]

Hard cold honest truth. You aren't getting power out of that d-series that is worth spending the money on unless you are going to boost it. Building the internals enough to get good power out of it and you might as well swap to a bigger motor looking from a cost stand point.

There have been a lot of people that have done a head swap, but honestly to me it is a waste of money for the little amount of power to come out of it and the time that is involved.

If you are going to boost it, you are going to want to at least rebuild the motor. That high of mileage is not a good thing when looking to push some power.

Also hope it is a manual as the automatics in these are terrible and a known weak point when building HP.

You can get b-series full swaps for cheap now a days. Why so scared of going with a bigger motor? You get some good power out of them. Even better out of a stock K-series or even more with some minor bolt ons as K-series respond pretty well to just the bolt ons. K-series is getting so popular that they are even reasonable now as far as price goes.

You can get that power goal by just dropping in a good d-series. That is without anything done as far as upgrades, then you can build from there. To be honest, by the time you are done trying to push power out of that d, you are going to wish you had just put the money towards a bigger motor to start with if money is your hang up.

 

[Mr.Baker]

I'll be the first one too tell you that its pathetically slow as is.. (258xxx miles, no smoke and doesn't burn oil) The car has new Megan coilovers with extended top hats, Megan lower rear arms, and a Megan subframe brace. Also I'm looking to achieve say 200 HP out of this when finished, I'm not cutting any corners, no expense spared. I've been thought to do things right the first time and I have another vehicle to drive in the meantime until I finish this car, so time isn't a problem.

1. It's slow because it wasn't built for speed, mostly reliability and fuel economy. Plus is has 1/4 million miles on it, it's gotta be a little tired.
2.Scrap the Megan garbage and start fresh.
3.Along with the cold hard truth lethal posted, to reiterate a bit, if expense and time are not an issue, start off with a better base engine. You mention you have a great base for a chassis and to do things right the first time, swap to a B18C or a K. You'll be happier in the long run and won't have to work so hard to reach your 200hp goal.

 

[Joshua Oliver]

Thanks for the info guys.. First thing what's wrong with the Megan? I mean I know its cheaper product as far as suspension goes, but just for a dd car will it work. I mean its not exactly the plushest ride. But as far as the lcas and the brace it seems quality. The coilovers could be swapped. Also the car has brand new front brake rotors, calipers, lines. Everything. I mean its not perfect but its a good base.. Tell me what you guys think. Also another thing about the car I dislike besides having about as much power as a sewing machine is the tranny, (yes 5 speed). The gears seem too just last forever, and I'm not even pushing it. Just like going to 4k at most. Its more of geared for gas milage?. Maybe that's why the motor feels like such a dog because it has 0 acceleration Anyone that's ever drove an hx knows what I'm talking about.

 

[Mr.Baker]

First thing what's wrong with the Megan? I mean I know its cheaper product as far as suspension goes, but just for a dd car will it work. I mean its not exactly the plushest ride. .

You've pretty much answered your own question. It's a cheaper product, enough said, and the car is TOO low.
The lower the car, the worse the ride quality, add to that junk name parts, = even worse ride and longevity of the parts are questionable.
One thing you shouldn't cheap out on is suspension. Start with replacing that before any motor work.
The mentality that you have about the suspension, "it will work" is garbage. No point in building the motor if the car is going to ride and handle poorly.

Also another thing about the car I dislike besides having about as much power as a sewing machine is the tranny, (yes 5 speed). The gears seem too just last forever, and I'm not even pushing it. Just like going to 4k at most. Its more of geared for gas milage?. Maybe that's why the motor feels like such a dog because it has 0 acceleration Anyone that's ever drove an hx knows what I'm talking about.

Hence, why I said it was built for fuel economy, not to be sporty and fast.
It's the Hx model, the fuel efficient model in the lineup. It's the combo of vtec -e and a tall geared transmission to achieve this.
I had an Hx and on flat highway, it got out of it's own way without issue, around town no problem, but, up and down hills, not so much.
Again, it wasn't built for power or speed.
It's doing what it was engineered for.

 

[lethal6]

The car was build 100% for gas mileage. It's what this and the 5th gen hondas were most known for. It's kind of the equivalent of buying a base nuts mustang and wishing it had the power and speed of a roush or shelby. Not directly but same base concept. To get there you need to spend the money and either force it by boosting or swapping to a bigger motor to get it up to the comparable higher models. The one you bought was the lower model for commuting.

 

[Joshua Oliver]

I truly wanted a Del Sol but with my budget I couldn't find a driveable one, I mean the car does scrape a little in spots just have too be careful. If I just swapped out the coilovers would I be fine? I mean the lcas and brace seem quality, figured the shocks were too. What's so bad about Megan? After the info you guys have given me I'd like to swap if I can find one for a reasonable price. I see JDM b16s and b18s for around 2500 - 3000. That's a little more than I'm looking too spend. If prefer a JDM motor and tranny over usdm because I heard they're just better built/running motors. Would it be cheaper too buy a motor and everything else separate or find a swap kit like on hmotors or something.. Like I said in my original post. I'm new too hondas, I know some but nowhere near what you guys know. I'm trying to learn and make a decent car along the way. And your right, for tooling around town or down the highway like when I bought it its perfect, hills it absolutely will NOT climb to save its ass. This could be solved by swapping trannys but its not worth it too me, if I pull the motor its gonna be cause I have something better waiting to be put in.. Also the hx has obd2a if I'm correct. Is there any swap I can find out there that's compatible with just an ecu or will I need a jumper no matter what.. Sorry for so many questions I just have a lot in my head. And I'm not just interested in a b series. I'll consider anything.

And the car is up maybe an inch and 3/4 since them pics. The kid that had it before me took a lot of short cuts. Like sawing the shift lever right in half to make a short throw. Like cmon man, he did the suspension work and brakes and exhuast over winter. It all had 0 miles on it when I got it. If it was Me who did it I would've researched it more before buying the cheapest parts you can buy. I bought the car for a project, it will not happen over night. It might even take years. Boost is not in my future because I see no reason to have it on there for a dd unless just too say its on there. I'm just looking for a solid, reliable quick Honda, that has torque, will get out of its own way and then some, I don't need nothing extreme, a stock b18 would satisfy me probably. The suspension will have too work for now because I don't have $$$$ to spend on it.

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[mc360]

If you want torque get a small turbo, if it's built with quality parts you can make a reliable boosted honda. My d series makes more torque than any b series swap you will find, I boosted my 96 hx d16y5 a few years back and it made 166whp 149tq and now my boosted y8 is making 222whp 179tq. I believe if you compare money spent per hp a boosted d16 is going to be cheaper and net more hp than a stock swap

 

[Joshua Oliver]

What's your setup

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[mc360]

I'm running a go-autoworks kit that I pieced together in a year, t3 Garrett 60 trim .42/.48ar intercooled with 525cc injectors stock fuel pump. Same kit on both cars but two different tuners, I highly advise a decent tuner if you do go turbo. The guy that tuned my current car got the numbers I was looking for but he did a hack job pretty much, fuel and ignition maps looked like s**t, he didn't tune vtec crossover, barely messed with iat and ect correction tables so my car had hard start problems. First guy tuned my hx at 166hp 149tq and I had zero problems with the car in two years of being turbo.