'02 Civic Head Issue: Broken Cap

iSamoStefan

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Let's just skip the part where I tell you all about how much of a moron I am.

I heli-coiled all of my valve cover bolt holes - because they all needed it.

Well, one of them gave me some trouble, and this is what I ended up with.

Please don't ask how I managed this.

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Hopefully I can get some input as to a fix, because my only idea is replacing that part with a junk yard part.

Thank you!
 

dancam

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Woah, Dude! Just replacing those parts would have been better than the helicoil in the first place! Its pretty easy to take out, just make sure to get all the rocker arms and both tubes so everything matches and your oil clearances dont get wonky from mis-matching parts. Use a torque wrench to install. Doesn't look too healthy in there either though, how often are you changing your oil?
Getting the parts from the wrecker isnt cost prohibitive is it? I think it would be cheaper than the helicoil kit. But if it is let me know and there is another way to fix it that works every time 60% of the time....


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dancam

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When tapping for your helicoil thing were you getting metal shavings into the valve area or not?


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iSamoStefan

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dancam said:
When tapping for your helicoil thing were you getting metal shavings into the valve area or not?


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I put a rag and collected the shavings, no noticeable traces of aluminum in the oil.

dancam said:
Woah, Dude! Just replacing those parts would have been better than the helicoil in the first place! Its pretty easy to take out, just make sure to get all the rocker arms and both tubes so everything matches and your oil clearances dont get wonky from mis-matching parts. Use a torque wrench to install. Doesn't look too healthy in there either though, how often are you changing your oil?
Getting the parts from the wrecker isnt cost prohibitive is it? I think it would be cheaper than the helicoil kit. But if it is let me know and there is another way to fix it that works every time 60% of the time....


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I recently completed a head gasket job 5000 miles ago and I had the head machined as well. Now this sh*t happens :/ I need to find a replacement side piece for the rocker tho if that is my last option..
 

lethal6

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IIRC those cam caps are machine bored with the head. You need a new head or need to get new rocker caps and have a shop remachine your head to match them.
 

iSamoStefan

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lethal6 said:
IIRC those cam caps are machine bored with the head. You need a new head or need to get new rocker caps and have a shop remachine your head to match them.
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I think you're on to something here, I won't be getting a new head though, not a chance. However, a rocker cap sounds like a good option. Why would my head need to be machined to match if the part is the same OEM?
 

lethal6

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There is a reason they aren't shown as separate purchasable parts in the parts schematic. They are bolted on the head and machine bored so the tolerance for the cam is exactly the same all the way through, same thing happens with the crank. If you put some from another head on there, even the slightest tolerance could spell disaster for the cams and that could spell disaster for everything else in the head (and possibly the motor) if they can't spin like they should.

I don't recommend slapping any caps on there without having them remachined with the head. Your cheapest option is going to be a replacement head unless you can get machine work done for cheap. Some of those shops are expensive.

Just because a part is OEM doesn't mean it matches up correctly with other parts, especially those with tolerances in mm.

Do what you want though. Your money.
 

iSamoStefan

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lethal6 said:
There is a reason they aren't shown as separate purchasable parts in the parts schematic. They are bolted on the head and machine bored so the tolerance for the cam is exactly the same all the way through, same thing happens with the crank. If you put some from another head on there, even the slightest tolerance could spell disaster for the cams and that could spell disaster for everything else in the head (and possibly the motor) if they can't spin like they should.

I don't recommend slapping any caps on there without having them remachined with the head. Your cheapest option is going to be a replacement head unless you can get machine work done for cheap. Some of those shops are expensive.

Just because a part is OEM doesn't mean it matches up correctly with other parts, especially those with tolerances in mm.

Do what you want though. Your money.
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Much appreciated, very informative. I have contacted my buddy who is a welder and I am hoping he can lend some further insight. Also, going to talk with my machinist and figure some details out in the AM. I just can't believe how it went from one simple procedure to a pita. smh
 

iSamoStefan

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lethal6 said:
IIRC those cam caps are machine bored with the head. You need a new head or need to get new rocker caps and have a shop remachine your head to match them.
Click to expand...
Jumping back to this post. When I replaced my headgasket, the machinist did not resurface my head with respect to the cam cap (I brought him just the head, not the rocker assembly or cam holders). I'm beginning to think that this implies that the tolerance is not that large of an issue?
 

dancam

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He had no reason to for a head gasket. A head warped that bad wouldn't be fixable i dont think.
But anyway, cheap fix that may not work: find a long stud. JB weld it with that broken off piece onto that cap. Stick the valve cover back on and the rest of the bolts in and use some permatex gasket maker to silicon a washer over the hole where the stud comes out and tighten a nut on there. It would have to make an airtight seal and dont over tighten and break the jb weld. It would also look bad. Theres supposed to be better stuff than jb weld out there but you get the idea. Maybe put some silicon on the vc gasket near this bolt in case you dont wanna tighten it too much. No promises that it will work.
I wasnt aware that the caps were machine fit to the head but it makes sense and i believe thats true. But like any online advice verify that before spending money. Same if for some odd reason you decide to do what i just said, look up people who have tried it and see if it worked before trying it yourself.


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iSamoStefan

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So I'm thinking about getting the cam journal from a junked car and cutting off the bolt part of it and welding it to mine.. Thoughts?
 

lethal6

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iSamoStefan said:
Jumping back to this post. When I replaced my headgasket, the machinist did not resurface my head with respect to the cam cap (I brought him just the head, not the rocker assembly or cam holders). I'm beginning to think that this implies that the tolerance is not that large of an issue?
Click to expand...

2 different issues man. Resurfacing the head has to do with the surface between the head and the block. What I am talking about is reboring where the cam passes through. Those caps when bolted to the head make a circle. They need to be machined WITH the head to be completely round with respect to the head. By putting another cam cap on there from another head it has to be within a very small tolerance and the odds of them matching are very slim (hence why it would need to be rebored). I wouldn't risk it. In the end you will be saving money by getting another head instead of spending it 3 times when you have to redo it all again.
 

iSamoStefan

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lethal6 said:
2 different issues man. Resurfacing the head has to do with the surface between the head and the block. What I am talking about is reboring where the cam passes through. Those caps when bolted to the head make a circle. They need to be machined WITH the head to be completely round with respect to the head. By putting another cam cap on there from another head it has to be within a very small tolerance and the odds of them matching are very slim (hence why it would need to be rebored). I wouldn't risk it. In the end you will be saving money by getting another head instead of spending it 3 times when you have to redo it all again.
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Do you think I can get by with using my dial caliper/plastiguage and removing the material on the cam cap so that it is within tolerance?
 

Joe Mason

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Good thread, good info here. I agree with replacing the head at this point. There's some work involved for sure. But while you're at it you can do other maintenance too. Timing belt, water pump, cam and crank seals. Plus with a replacement head you can get that thing all nice and cleaned up. But ask yourself this, how much would it suck to "fix" this head and get it all put back together and then have it break itself in a few hundred or thousand miles. It's your call obviously. Good luck and please keep the thread posted with some progress. :santa:
 

iSamoStefan

New Member
Joe Mason said:
Good thread, good info here. I agree with replacing the head at this point. There's some work involved for sure. But while you're at it you can do other maintenance too. Timing belt, water pump, cam and crank seals. Plus with a replacement head you can get that thing all nice and cleaned up. But ask yourself this, how much would it suck to "fix" this head and get it all put back together and then have it break itself in a few hundred or thousand miles. It's your call obviously. Good luck and please keep the thread posted with some progress. :santa:
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I already did everything you mentioned less than 6 months ago. Got the head machined when I did the head gasket. Also did all timing components. Thank you for your feedback =)
 

iSamoStefan

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Update: Goal: Going to remove rocker assembly and hopefully maintain timing (if the cam stays put) so that I can get a replacement cam cap and make sure tolerances are good using methods of plastiguage, dial caliper, dial indicator, and machine shop approaches. Then putting everything back together and driving away :domollama:
 
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