Built LS, thoughts on turbos for it?

[LSwaldo]

Hey what's up guys, so i'm currently swapping a built LS into my '97 sedan. I'm thinking about going turbo on it after but I'm not quite sure what route to take. This is the build on it:
- Golden Eagle Crank
- Eagle Rods
- 12 to 1 compression
- CP Pistons
- CNC block guard
- ARP head studs, springs, and retainers.
- B20 cams
- Victory X intake manifold
- ACL Rod bearings
- ACL main bearing
- GSR Tranny
- Stage 5 Competition Clutch
- OBX fuel rail
So I've been thinking about going e85 as well when I do boost it. Any input on what would be a good set up to go with? I'm trying to get aroud 500-600hp. Appreciate your comments/opinion in advance!

 

[nd4sped]

Swap the cams for a turbo profile cam.

Since you will be running a high compression turbo setup the most important aspect of your build is going to be your tuning. I personally prefer high compression turbo builds and have done all of my turbo builds in this manner with great success. High compression builds a lot of cylinder pressure thus a lot of heat. Turbo creates massive amounts of cylinder pressure and even higher heat. So you MUST have the proper tuning to compensate for this.

E85 is a great fuel to use in this build, but if you do stay on 93+ then I highly recommend you include water injection.

Hondata S300 is my choice of tuning software.

If you pay a professional tuner dont be suprised to spend at least $1000 on tuning.

 

[Diana Nam]

Swap the cams for a turbo profile cam.

Since you will be running a high compression turbo setup the most important aspect of your build is going to be your tuning. I personally prefer high compression turbo builds and have done all of my turbo builds in this manner with great success. High compression builds a lot of cylinder pressure thus a lot of heat. Turbo creates massive amounts of cylinder pressure and even higher heat. So you MUST have the proper tuning to compensate for this.

E85 is a great fuel to use in this build, but if you do stay on 93+ then I highly recommend you include water injection.

Hondata S300 is my choice of tuning software.

If you pay a professional tuner dont be suprised to spend at least $1000 on tuning.

most turbo cams for honda aren't really that great they tend to have to much valve overlaping which not what you want for turbo setup. i've been researching on this topic for ages for my build for awhile a lot of other poeple from honda tech and has they got much better results with n/a cams mostly due to those cams having less valve over lapping

 

[nd4sped]

most turbo cams for honda aren't really that great they tend to have to much valve overlapping which not what you want for turbo setup. i've been researching on this topic for ages for my build for awhile a lot of other people from honda tech and has they got much better results with n/a cams mostly due to those cams having less valve overlapping

All aftermarket cams tend to have some amount of overlap, this is how they engineer getting the most vacuum applied to the cylinder on the exhaust stroke.

Also until you start building these engines with OEM Honda camshafts and aftermarket camshafts then spending the countless hours on the dyno as I have. Don't just spread your wisdom of what you read people are saying at Honda-Tech. Honda-Tech is not the holy grail of honda tuning. There is so much misinformation on that site it makes me puke.

Aftermarket application specific cams are ALWAYS going to produce higher output over OE cams all day, everyday. The biggest factor in an aftermarket cam over OE is lift, this is how much the valve gets opened. AM cams always have higher lift. The duration of some AM cams may be nearly identical to OE in some applications for which they are designed. When the duration is lengthened then that's when we get overlap extension between IN and EX.

So ya, build your engine with OE cams, I'll build mine with AM and I'll be in 1st everytime.

 

[XpL0d3r]

12:1 is pretty high! I wouldn't run anything other than E85 if you choose to go forced induction.

 

[Diana Nam]

All aftermarket cams tend to have some amount of overlap, this is how they engineer getting the most vacuum applied to the cylinder on the exhaust stroke.

Also until you start building these engines with OEM Honda camshafts and aftermarket camshafts then spending the countless hours on the dyno as I have. Don't just spread your wisdom of what you read people are saying at Honda-Tech. Honda-Tech is not the holy grail of honda tuning. There is so much misinformation on that site it makes me puke.

Aftermarket application specific cams are ALWAYS going to produce higher output over OE cams all day, everyday. The biggest factor in an aftermarket cam over OE is lift, this is how much the valve gets opened. AM cams always have higher lift. The duration of some AM cams may be nearly identical to OE in some applications for which they are designed. When the duration is lengthened then that's when we get overlap extension between IN and EX.

So ya, build your engine with OE cams, I'll build mine with AM and I'll be in 1st everytime.

yes that is true but when i say it has to much over lapping its ment as in its way to much there is million thread on this topic on HT people was with skunk2 pro 1 which is a N/A cam made about almost 60whp more then the stage 2 crower turbo cams. also on that note you have to realize these was test proven on the dyno and yes there is equal amount of miss infomation but dyno graphs posted on the threads don't lie either....

 

[nd4sped]

yes that is true but when i say it has to much over lapping its ment as in its way to much there is million thread on this topic on HT people was with skunk2 pro 1 which is a N/A cam made about almost 60whp more then the stage 2 crower turbo cams. also on that note you have to realize these was test proven on the dyno and yes there is equal amount of miss infomation but dyno graphs posted on the threads don't lie either....

There is no surprise that comparing one specific cam to only one other specific cam showed the NA cam producing more power on one engine. So lets compare the specs of both these cams for a B16/18.

http://store.skunk2.com/engine-tuning/top-end/camshafts/pro-series-camshafts/pro-series-camshafts-77.html
Skunk2 B-Series Pro Series Camshafts Pro 1+


http://www.briancrower.com/makes/honda/b16ab18c.shtml
Brian Crower Turbo Camshaft


So ya it's no surprise that the Skunk2 camshaft made more power. It is also way more aggressive than the BC cam in all categories. Skunk2 VTEC lobe lift is a whopping .498" over the BC's mild .465" and duration is 255 to 232 in comparison.

.033" is a lot of space when you are talking about engine tolerances. When you are forcing air and fuel in as well it's like opening the garage door in your house just to let some air in.

So ya we aren't even comparing apples to apples, it's comparing apples to softballs. Generally if you take all the turbo cams and put them up against the NA cams on the same engine. Turbo cams will win.

Put some Kelford 304/298 cams and they will make more power as well but then we are talking about custom modification to pistons valve relief or custom one off pistons all together.

Also we are leaving out a huge factor here, the tuner.

 

[LSwaldo]

Swap the cams for a turbo profile cam.

Since you will be running a high compression turbo setup the most important aspect of your build is going to be your tuning. I personally prefer high compression turbo builds and have done all of my turbo builds in this manner with great success. High compression builds a lot of cylinder pressure thus a lot of heat. Turbo creates massive amounts of cylinder pressure and even higher heat. So you MUST have the proper tuning to compensate for this.

E85 is a great fuel to use in this build, but if you do stay on 93+ then I highly recommend you include water injection.

Hondata S300 is my choice of tuning software.

If you pay a professional tuner dont be suprised to spend at least $1000 on tuning.

What about turbo size and PSI? I've been thinking of maybe getting a Turbonetics T70 and maybe putting around 10psi or maybe a little more.

 

[nd4sped]

What about turbo size and PSI? I've been thinking of maybe getting a Turbonetics T70 and maybe putting around 10psi or maybe a little more.

The amount of pressure being run is not relative until you get it on a dyno and tune. Are you kidding asking me if a T-70 is ideal for this build? No not really man, those turbos are meant for making upwards of 1000HP.

Guys who build high compression turbo (HC-T) builds usually build them for road racing or rally. They are generally in boost all the time and are aiming for immediate torque with a linear powerband.

Dude find a engine calculator and do the math to determine how much CFM your engine will be outputting and then use that value to determine the right turbo.

Do your homework man, you have the internet at your disposal. I'm not doing all the work for you. Ill give you insight from experience but if you want me to build you a engine throw some money my way.

 

[xxBLOOD88SHOTxx]

Why not just put a B16 or GSR head on it? Already going as far as you are what's a few hundred bucks more?

 

[Diana Nam]

high compression helps when your looking to make decent amount power without having to run high boost settings, i have custom wiesco 11:1 compression pistons with k20 rod my actual dynamic compression is 9.7:1 even tho my target CR was 10:1. but also to let every one know this is a high hp build aiming for 500hp and up. and as spool said

They are generally in boost all the time and are aiming for immediate torque with a linear powerband.

which was another reason why i went with high compression setup

rods which in total my dynamic compression is 9.7:1

 

[Diana Nam]

There is no surprise that comparing one specific cam to only one other specific cam showed the NA cam producing more power on one engine. So lets compare the specs of both these cams for a B16/18.

http://store.skunk2.com/engine-tuning/top-end/camshafts/pro-series-camshafts/pro-series-camshafts-77.html
Skunk2 B-Series Pro Series Camshafts Pro 1+
View attachment 26847

http://www.briancrower.com/makes/honda/b16ab18c.shtml
Brian Crower Turbo Camshaft
View attachment 26845

So ya it's no surprise that the Skunk2 camshaft made more power. It is also way more aggressive than the BC cam in all categories. Skunk2 VTEC lobe lift is a whopping .498" over the BC's mild .465" and duration is 255 to 232 in comparison.

.033" is a lot of space when you are talking about engine tolerances. When you are forcing air and fuel in as well it's like opening the garage door in your house just to let some air in.

So ya we aren't even comparing apples to apples, it's comparing apples to softballs. Generally if you take all the turbo cams and put them up against the NA cams on the same engine. Turbo cams will win.

Put some Kelford 304/298 cams and they will make more power as well but then we are talking about custom modification to pistons valve relief or custom one off pistons all together.

Also we are leaving out a huge factor here, the tuner.

true we did forget about the tuner lol but then again with a tuner he/she can make any xxx power out of any setups as long as the tuner knows what he/she is doing. yea some turbo cams do work not saying all turbo cams are no good but generally the turbo cam that most people run like Crower cam or BC cams or skunk2, this seem to of the hot topic thats mostly debated. don't know to many people running kelford cams mostly my subie friends usually rock kelford or GSC S3/S2 cams

 

[daperez13]

Hey what's up guys, so i'm currently swapping a built LS into my '97 sedan. I'm thinking about going turbo on it after but I'm not quite sure what route to take. This is the build on it:
- Golden Eagle Crank
- Eagle Rods
- 12 to 1 compression
- CP Pistons
- CNC block guard
- ARP head studs, springs, and retainers.
- B20 cams
- Victory X intake manifold
- ACL Rod bearings
- ACL main bearing
- GSR Tranny
- Stage 5 Competition Clutch
- OBX fuel rail
So I've been thinking about going e85 as well when I do boost it. Any input on what would be a good set up to go with? I'm trying to get aroud 500-600hp. Appreciate your comments/opinion in advance!

I have a Garrett T3/T04B (Stage 3 Wheel) Turbine: A/R .63, (H3 Trim) Compressor: A/R .70 that should fit your HP goal needs just perfect. We were planning to use this on a B16 but that project got scrapped. It's too big for a D16 and we're in the market for a smaller turbo, so this one can go. PM me if you want more pictures, I don't want to turn this into a Classified Thread.

 

[Diana Nam]

Hey what's up guys, so i'm currently swapping a built LS into my '97 sedan. I'm thinking about going turbo on it after but I'm not quite sure what route to take. This is the build on it:
- Golden Eagle Crank
- Eagle Rods
- 12 to 1 compression
- CP Pistons
- CNC block guard
- ARP head studs, springs, and retainers.
- B20 cams
- Victory X intake manifold
- ACL Rod bearings
- ACL main bearing
- GSR Tranny
- Stage 5 Competition Clutch
- OBX fuel rail
So I've been thinking about going e85 as well when I do boost it. Any input on what would be a good set up to go with? I'm trying to get aroud 500-600hp. Appreciate your comments/opinion in advance!

you should you get some ARP main studs helps the bottom end to hold up especially with your setup

 

[Diana Nam]

the picture is alittle fuzzt but you can see the ARP studs sticking out since i had the main girdle off