2016 Presidental Election

[XpL0d3r]

I'm ready to stir some s**t up.

2016 Presidential Election... who are you voting for, and why? If you dislike them all or refuse to vote, explain yourself. Keep this thread mature and on-topic, please.

Bernie Sanders gets my vote, hands down. I don't agree with everything that he says, such as $15 minimum wage for everyone, but out of all the candidates, I like his policies best. He's by far the most honest. I think his tax policy is fair, I think he's got the right idea on free college, or at a bare minimum lower tuition costs. Universal healthcare will be hard to implement, but surely not impossible. If he can do that, and combine that with lower tuition costs, this would definitely increase wealth and prosperity, therefore increasing GDP. And he's always had the same opinions! He's never once changed his ideas based on what others want to hear.

I won't touch upon all the candidates, but I despise Trump and Clinton. Trump is not fit to be a leader in this country, IMO. He uses his expertise in entertainment to persuade people. I seriously cringe at the thought of him leading this country, and more-so leading our military. He has an OK tax policy, but that's about it. And Clinton is a damn Pinocchio. She changes her mind and opinions to say to what others want to hear. She's a scam, and the DNC loves her.

Discuss. You don't need to vote in the poll, but I'd like to see opinions of others.

 

[mymmeryloss]

Seriously, can you lock me from this thread so I can't post, ever?

 

[XpL0d3r]

Seriously, can you lock me from this thread so I can't post, ever?

Your request is my command. However, you can still read this thread. Ya chicken.

 

[ImportFan1]

Bill Murray

 

[buzzbombtom]

Bernie and his tax plan are scary if you like your money. A loss of about 12.5% after tax income.... that's a lot of money.

 

[young_]

I'm going with Cruz. I'm old school constitutionalist.

I'm all for individual liberty, and the accountability that comes with that. I don't want government in my life, and would rather just live completely off grid if it came to it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[Killa_CiViC]

I'd also vote for Cruz. Social programs have tended to hurt my bottom line more than help. I'd like to strip government down to the bare minimum.

Sadly, it looks very much like Trump is going to get the GOP nomination, and likely win the presidency, because he's tapped into the hatred for government that so many people have now.. they don't care who Trump really is. They just want someone in office who's not a politician... which is why I have many friends who say they are voting for them, on both the republican side and democrat side. And most especially if Clinton gets the nomination.
But Clinton and Trump are both Authoritarian Fascists, so there's really no difference between the two... Trump definitely is not a republican or a conservative of any kind.

I won't vote for Trump. I'd vote 3rd party first.

I laugh and cringe at Sanders plan to steal more money from my pocket to pay for everyone elses stuff.

 

[xxBLOOD88SHOTxx]

They're all f**ked in the head in some way or another.

 

[Mr.Baker]

the hatred for government that so many people have now.. they don't care who Trump really is. They just want someone in office who's not a politician...

Sanders plan to steal more money from my pocket to pay for everyone elses stuff.

This is our OWN fault for creating these two types of people.
We've created a "Gov't will take care of me, entitlement society", in turn creating the other side, where people hate and distrust the Gov't so much, it's on the line of conspiracy and militia type of mindset.
I think for me, to see Obama get reelected back in '12, left a largely sour taste in my mouth, and little confidence in our country's future or Gov't.

 

[Killa_CiViC]

This is our OWN fault for creating these two types of people.
We've created a "Gov't will take care of me, entitlement society", in turn creating the other side, where people hate and distrust the Gov't so much, it's on the line of conspiracy and militia type of mindset.
I think for me, to see Obama get reelected back in '12, left a largely sour taste in my mouth, and little confidence in our country's future or Gov't.

So who are you voting for?

 

[XpL0d3r]

Bernie and his tax plan are scary if you like your money. A loss of about 12.5% after tax income.... that's a lot of money.

I'd also vote for Cruz. Social programs have tended to hurt my bottom line more than help. I'd like to strip government down to the bare minimum.

Sadly, it looks very much like Trump is going to get the GOP nomination, and likely win the presidency, because he's tapped into the hatred for government that so many people have now.. they don't care who Trump really is. They just want someone in office who's not a politician... which is why I have many friends who say they are voting for them, on both the republican side and democrat side. And most especially if Clinton gets the nomination.
But Clinton and Trump are both Authoritarian Fascists, so there's really no difference between the two... Trump definitely is not a republican or a conservative of any kind.

I won't vote for Trump. I'd vote 3rd party first.

I laugh and cringe at Sanders plan to steal more money from my pocket to pay for everyone elses stuff.

Unless you make absolutely bank, Bernie's tax proposals really aren't that bad. I hate linking to CNN because I try to find unbiased sources (yeah, right), but take a read here: http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/04/pf/taxes/bernie-sanders-taxes/

I'm ok with taxing the super wealthy. Most of the 1% are CEOs and investors, hedge fund owners, and the like. People who get very large, annual bonuses. Sure, they deserve their money too, but lets be real here, nobody needs 500 millions bucks.

IMO when it comes down to it, the pro's outweigh the cons. There's no doubt the Gov't needs reform. But it's hard to reform when money is being spent in the wrong places. Reform is slow or doesn't happen at all when it can't be afforded. Especially when the top politicians are all rich and living the good life -- why would they want change? In their mind the system works for them. And really, the system isn't broken, but it's not running well. It's like a damn rusted Honda, it looks ugly and gets made fun of but s**t just keeps chugging along. Anyways, a lot of what Bernie wants to do is not increase spending, but change how the money is spent. So lets say a lot of that money goes towards free tuition / universal health care will make people lazy and cause them to think that everything can be handed to them. It's false. Free tuition does not mean everyone gets free college. Those would still need to get good grades, and above all, would still want to go to college. Northwestern college is already capping tuition limits at $20k, with the remaining bit being paid for using grants, scholarships, and work study programs. There was, however, a study that says people who are further in student loan debt generally do better and have a better chance of graduating on time. So this plan has pros and cons, but I think a majority would use the system, not abuse it.

Now, combine that with universal healthcare. That is sometime that people should not have to pay much for. You should not have to pay to be healthy. It's common for people to not go to the doctor or to have procedures done because they don't want to have to deal with the bill. For example my housemate waited until he landed in the ER to get a surgery done, all because it was expensive. And he ended up getting the surgery anyways, PLUS the ER bill on top of that. Universal healthcare will help to alleviate issues like this, and with free tuition, you get a smarter, healthier next generation. Up goes GDP, down goes total debt after a whole bunch of years. Money spent on war and overseas activities can be used elsewhere too. Like I said, Bernie wants to change where the money is spent. Our military strength would not be affected, just how they'd be utilized.

Back to Drumpf. Trump will not win. People either love him (yikes), or hate him. He has less than 50% of most polls. If Rubio and everyone else except Cruz and Trump were to drop out, those who were to support anyone other than Trump, will most likely go with Cruz. So, really, once it becomes a 1v1 showdown between Trump and Cruz, I have a feeling we'll see Cruz taking the lead.

 

[nd4sped]

I laugh and cringe at Sanders plan to steal more money from my pocket to pay for everyone elses stuff.

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! Somebody gets it! I been shouting this s**t at the top of my lungs for months.

I personally am split between Cruz and Trump.

 

[nd4sped]

Sure, they deserve their money too, but lets be real here, nobody needs 500 millions bucks.

I can explain in 500 ways why I need $500,000,000.

 

[buzzbombtom]

Unless you make absolutely bank, Bernie's tax proposals really aren't that bad. I hate linking to CNN because I try to find unbiased sources (yeah, right), but take a read here: http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/04/pf/taxes/bernie-sanders-taxes/

I'm ok with taxing the super wealthy. Most of the 1% are CEOs and investors, hedge fund owners, and the like. People who get very large, annual bonuses. Sure, they deserve their money too, but lets be real here, nobody needs 500 millions bucks.

IMO when it comes down to it, the pro's outweigh the cons. There's no doubt the Gov't needs reform. But it's hard to reform when money is being spent in the wrong places. Reform is slow or doesn't happen at all when it can't be afforded. Especially when the top politicians are all rich and living the good life -- why would they want change? In their mind the system works for them. And really, the system isn't broken, but it's not running well. It's like a damn rusted Honda, it looks ugly and gets made fun of but s**t just keeps chugging along. Anyways, a lot of what Bernie wants to do is not increase spending, but change how the money is spent. So lets say a lot of that money goes towards free tuition / universal health care will make people lazy and cause them to think that everything can be handed to them. It's false. Free tuition does not mean everyone gets free college. Those would still need to get good grades, and above all, would still want to go to college. Northwestern college is already capping tuition limits at $20k, with the remaining bit being paid for using grants, scholarships, and work study programs. There was, however, a study that says people who are further in student loan debt generally do better and have a better chance of graduating on time. So this plan has pros and cons, but I think a majority would use the system, not abuse it.

Now, combine that with universal healthcare. That is sometime that people should not have to pay much for. You should not have to pay to be healthy. It's common for people to not go to the doctor or to have procedures done because they don't want to have to deal with the bill. For example my housemate waited until he landed in the ER to get a surgery done, all because it was expensive. And he ended up getting the surgery anyways, PLUS the ER bill on top of that. Universal healthcare will help to alleviate issues like this, and with free tuition, you get a smarter, healthier next generation. Up goes GDP, down goes total debt after a whole bunch of years. Money spent on war and overseas activities can be used elsewhere too. Like I said, Bernie wants to change where the money is spent. Our military strength would not be affected, just how they'd be utilized.


Back to Drumpf. Trump will not win. People either love him (yikes), or hate him. He has less than 50% of most polls. If Rubio and everyone else except Cruz and Trump were to drop out, those who were to support anyone other than Trump, will most likely go with Cruz. So, really, once it becomes a 1v1 showdown between Trump and Cruz, I have a feeling we'll see Cruz taking the lead.

That article that the average tax will go up by $9,000.... lowering the after tax income by 12%... and my wife and I fall into the potential for the 39-54% income tax brackets under the new policy. I would rather tell my wife to not work than to pay her entire salary into taxes... why should a person who is successful have to pay MORE in taxes because they were good at their job?

And on top of that, we would pay the carbon increase of 2.2% our capital gains because of our income, would be taxes super high, once you start to make not college money, or get a job that isn't a crummy low paying job and own a home, you will see how bad of an idea his plan really is

 

[R3dline]

remember nothing is free, "free college" sounds great for you retards that jumped in over your head and now cant pay your $$$ back. But just remember , if everyone starts getting free s**t, what do you think is going to happen to everything else? you wanna pay 300 bucks for 100 bucks of groceries? you wanna pay 6 bucks in gas? you wanna pay double what you were paying for everything? Then go ahead and vote for bernie , feel that bern in your wallet and let me know how it feels.Hes a f**king socialist, its proven not to work, even in these countries that claim it works, it doesnt. talk to the mother f**kers that actually live there and they will tell you that it doesnt f**king work. Where the f**k do you think small companies are going to come up with 15 bucks a hour to pay some s**t head to do some meaningless bottom rung job, they wont, they will close. The ones that do survive will double the price of their goods in order to stay floating. Anyone catching on yet? NOTHING IS f**king FREE. NO MATTER WHAT SOME LOW LIFE OLD MAN TELLS YOU. Take a look at his past , he was a do nothing wanting something for nothing. And for the people that think hillary is where your gonna vote, jesus f**king christ how stupid are you? its not even worth talking about and you should just go out back and borrow you daddys gun and blow your brains out, cause you're exactly whats wrong with this United States.

 

[Killa_CiViC]

Unless you make absolutely bank, Bernie's tax proposals really aren't that bad. I hate linking to CNN because I try to find unbiased sources (yeah, right), but take a read here: http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/04/pf/taxes/bernie-sanders-taxes/

I'm ok with taxing the super wealthy. Most of the 1% are CEOs and investors, hedge fund owners, and the like. People who get very large, annual bonuses. Sure, they deserve their money too, but lets be real here, nobody needs 500 millions bucks.

IMO when it comes down to it, the pro's outweigh the cons. There's no doubt the Gov't needs reform. But it's hard to reform when money is being spent in the wrong places. Reform is slow or doesn't happen at all when it can't be afforded. Especially when the top politicians are all rich and living the good life -- why would they want change? In their mind the system works for them. And really, the system isn't broken, but it's not running well. It's like a damn rusted Honda, it looks ugly and gets made fun of but s**t just keeps chugging along. Anyways, a lot of what Bernie wants to do is not increase spending, but change how the money is spent. So lets say a lot of that money goes towards free tuition / universal health care will make people lazy and cause them to think that everything can be handed to them. It's false. Free tuition does not mean everyone gets free college. Those would still need to get good grades, and above all, would still want to go to college. Northwestern college is already capping tuition limits at $20k, with the remaining bit being paid for using grants, scholarships, and work study programs. There was, however, a study that says people who are further in student loan debt generally do better and have a better chance of graduating on time. So this plan has pros and cons, but I think a majority would use the system, not abuse it.

Now, combine that with universal healthcare. That is sometime that people should not have to pay much for. You should not have to pay to be healthy. It's common for people to not go to the doctor or to have procedures done because they don't want to have to deal with the bill. For example my housemate waited until he landed in the ER to get a surgery done, all because it was expensive. And he ended up getting the surgery anyways, PLUS the ER bill on top of that. Universal healthcare will help to alleviate issues like this, and with free tuition, you get a smarter, healthier next generation. Up goes GDP, down goes total debt after a whole bunch of years. Money spent on war and overseas activities can be used elsewhere too. Like I said, Bernie wants to change where the money is spent. Our military strength would not be affected, just how they'd be utilized.

Back to Drumpf. Trump will not win. People either love him (yikes), or hate him. He has less than 50% of most polls. If Rubio and everyone else except Cruz and Trump were to drop out, those who were to support anyone other than Trump, will most likely go with Cruz. So, really, once it becomes a 1v1 showdown between Trump and Cruz, I have a feeling we'll see Cruz taking the lead.

Bernie's tax increases affect me too.

I don't believe in free tuition, universal healthcare or any of that other Utopian idealism. All I need do is look at the state of public schooling k-12 to see free tuition as a failed prospect.
I grew up poor. I was home schooled. I never needed free public education. I worked a while before I went, and I stayed living at home with the parents for a while, but I paid my way through college, without loans.
I'm also thinking about opening my own business, but that would be a nightmare with Bernie in office.

Quality inevitably drops when government gets involved in something that was previously private or for profit. In my opinion, government should only be involved in national defense and infrastructure, and I'm up in the iffy on the infrastructure, but some of that is part of national defense.

Socialism sounds great on paper, but it only works until you run out of everyone else's money.

 

[XpL0d3r]

That article that the average tax will go up by $9,000.... lowering the after tax income by 12%... and my wife and I fall into the potential for the 39-54% income tax brackets under the new policy. I would rather tell my wife to not work than to pay her entire salary into taxes... why should a person who is successful have to pay MORE in taxes because they were good at their job?

And on top of that, we would pay the carbon increase of 2.2% our capital gains because of our income, would be taxes super high, once you start to make not college money, or get a job that isn't a crummy low paying job and own a home, you will see how bad of an idea his plan really is

I make beyond college money. Nothing incredible, but enough to where I can live comfortably while still paying $600 a month for school loans. I don't own a home so I certainly cannot attest to that. I do agree, a person who is successful should not have to pay more in taxes simply for being good at what they do. It affects doctors, lawyers, long time (faithful) employees, etc. So yes, you're right there. I suppose I am talking about the "1%", which is a very small population of Americans. So I get your point. IMO, Bernie's tax policies isn't the best, but it does what no other tax policy does -- decrease National debt. National debt is more important than many think. Higher cost of living, slower economic growth, generation inequality, to name a few issues. Admittedly, Trump and Cruz both have better tax policies that affect us NOW, but what about down the road? I consider myself very successful already, but if I can make things even easier for my children at my expense, I'm all for it. Cruz, in addition, wants to keep our military overseas, which means spending even more money! I do like his idea of abolishing the IRS. I like Trumps way of doing a one-time tax on the ultra rich as well as big businesses. I like both their plans on killing the death tax. I like Hilary's "new college compact". Trump says we need to be bold and to act now, and he's correct. But I feel like, with the exception of Bernie, the other candidates are thinking more of "act now for results now", and not "act not for our future". Bernie's policies will certainly hurt those with wealth, but seems like a solid plan for futuristic growth, thinking long term. It IS a big if, though. It's a gamble with Bernie's tax policy, but Trump said think bold, and honestly Bernie's is the boldest of them all. If it doesn't work, we throw down another Obama Care Package (economic stimulus)and the next guy in line brings the taxes back down. Bernie's plan seems reversible if it ends up doing more harm than good. But if it does work, I really can see benefits from it.

remember nothing is free, "free college" sounds great for you retards that jumped in over your head and now cant pay your $$$ back. But just remember , if everyone starts getting free s**t, what do you think is going to happen to everything else? you wanna pay 300 bucks for 100 bucks of groceries? you wanna pay 6 bucks in gas? you wanna pay double what you were paying for everything? Then go ahead and vote for bernie , feel that bern in your wallet and let me know how it feels.Hes a f**king socialist, its proven not to work, even in these countries that claim it works, it doesnt. talk to the mother f**kers that actually live there and they will tell you that it doesnt f**king work. Where the f**k do you think small companies are going to come up with 15 bucks a hour to pay some s**t head to do some meaningless bottom rung job, they wont, they will close. The ones that do survive will double the price of their goods in order to stay floating. Anyone catching on yet? NOTHING IS f**king FREE. NO MATTER WHAT SOME LOW LIFE OLD MAN TELLS YOU. Take a look at his past , he was a do nothing wanting something for nothing. And for the people that think hillary is where your gonna vote, jesus f**king christ how stupid are you? its not even worth talking about and you should just go out back and borrow you daddys gun and blow your brains out, cause you're exactly whats wrong with this United States.

Calm down killer, cursing doesn't make you cool. But I get your point.. with higher minimum wage, free tuition, and free healthcare definitely increases a sense of entitlement. I think you would definitely see that, but it can be controlled. Free tution doesn't mean letting everyone into school. It would increase demand, therefore only those who truly want to work for an education will get in... eliminating free rides. Healthcare I just believe should be a right to everyone... I shouldn't have to suffer with an illness because it's too expensive for me to afford it. Those with wealth could afford it, and this further splits the rich from the poor. But as I've said, I do think minimum wage should be higher, but not $15. And certainly not for those in fast food, which really annoys me that NYS passed a $15 min. law for fast food workers... I think it's BS. And sure, socialism hasn't worked in many other countries. A slight difference, is with Bernie being a democratic socialist, is that everything is done by the vote of the people. Electoral colleges aren't the right way to vote in this country, because the popular vote doesn't mean the winning vote (see Al Gore). But what a democratic socialist nation could do, is provide further fair elections that are not controlled by the Government. That could allow for future politicians to get into power who deserve it, rather than those who are bought in. If that happens, corruption within the Gov't minimizes. But again, I don't see any other policies from other politicians that could change Gov't corruption.

Bernie's tax increases affect me too.

I don't believe in free tuition, universal healthcare or any of that other Utopian idealism. All I need do is look at the state of public schooling k-12 to see free tuition as a failed prospect.
I grew up poor. I was home schooled. I never needed free public education. I worked a while before I went, and I stayed living at home with the parents for a while, but I paid my way through college, without loans.
I'm also thinking about opening my own business, but that would be a nightmare with Bernie in office.

Quality inevitably drops when government gets involved in something that was previously private or for profit. In my opinion, government should only be involved in national defense and infrastructure, and I'm up in the iffy on the infrastructure, but some of that is part of national defense.

Socialism sounds great on paper, but it only works until you run out of everyone else's money.

See my replies above for tuition, healthcare, and socialism. As for K-12 failing, I disagree. I think there can be improvements, and common-core needs to go. But I think it depends on where you grow up, too. I grew up in Mass, not poor, but certainly not wealthy. To put it into perspective, my mother was forced to retire due to disability, and father now has a stable job, but saw his fare share of ok-wage jobs when I was growing up. Mass has one of the strongest educational programs in the nation. I was able to graduate college with a 100% paid tuition scholarship to any state school. I ended up losing it due to poor grades but that's all on me. But my point is that education needs reform in more places than others. Like the poor conditions of school in Detroit and the like.

 

[Mr.Baker]

So who are you voting for?

Voting for someone on the right for sure, but as of now, it's a toss up.

 

[Killa_CiViC]

I make beyond college money. Nothing incredible, but enough to where I can live comfortably while still paying $600 a month for school loans. I don't own a home so I certainly cannot attest to that. I do agree, a person who is successful should not have to pay more in taxes simply for being good at what they do. It affects doctors, lawyers, long time (faithful) employees, etc. So yes, you're right there. I suppose I am talking about the "1%", which is a very small population of Americans. So I get your point. IMO, Bernie's tax policies isn't the best, but it does what no other tax policy does -- decrease National debt. National debt is more important than many think. Higher cost of living, slower economic growth, generation inequality, to name a few issues. Admittedly, Trump and Cruz both have better tax policies that affect us NOW, but what about down the road? I consider myself very successful already, but if I can make things even easier for my children at my expense, I'm all for it. Cruz, in addition, wants to keep our military overseas, which means spending even more money! I do like his idea of abolishing the IRS. I like Trumps way of doing a one-time tax on the ultra rich as well as big businesses. I like both their plans on killing the death tax. I like Hilary's "new college compact". Trump says we need to be bold and to act now, and he's correct. But I feel like, with the exception of Bernie, the other candidates are thinking more of "act now for results now", and not "act not for our future". Bernie's policies will certainly hurt those with wealth, but seems like a solid plan for futuristic growth, thinking long term. It IS a big if, though. It's a gamble with Bernie's tax policy, but Trump said think bold, and honestly Bernie's is the boldest of them all. If it doesn't work, we throw down another Obama Care Package (economic stimulus)and the next guy in line brings the taxes back down. Bernie's plan seems reversible if it ends up doing more harm than good. But if it does work, I really can see benefits from it.

Calm down killer, cursing doesn't make you cool. But I get your point.. with higher minimum wage, free tuition, and free healthcare definitely increases a sense of entitlement. I think you would definitely see that, but it can be controlled. Free tution doesn't mean letting everyone into school. It would increase demand, therefore only those who truly want to work for an education will get in... eliminating free rides. Healthcare I just believe should be a right to everyone... I shouldn't have to suffer with an illness because it's too expensive for me to afford it. Those with wealth could afford it, and this further splits the rich from the poor. But as I've said, I do think minimum wage should be higher, but not $15. And certainly not for those in fast food, which really annoys me that NYS passed a $15 min. law for fast food workers... I think it's BS. And sure, socialism hasn't worked in many other countries. A slight difference, is with Bernie being a democratic socialist, is that everything is done by the vote of the people. Electoral colleges aren't the right way to vote in this country, because the popular vote doesn't mean the winning vote (see Al Gore). But what a democratic socialist nation could do, is provide further fair elections that are not controlled by the Government. That could allow for future politicians to get into power who deserve it, rather than those who are bought in. If that happens, corruption within the Gov't minimizes. But again, I don't see any other policies from other politicians that could change Gov't corruption.

See my replies above for tuition, healthcare, and socialism. As for K-12 failing, I disagree. I think there can be improvements, and common-core needs to go. But I think it depends on where you grow up, too. I grew up in Mass, not poor, but certainly not wealthy. To put it into perspective, my mother was forced to retire due to disability, and father now has a stable job, but saw his fare share of ok-wage jobs when I was growing up. Mass has one of the strongest educational programs in the nation. I was able to graduate college with a 100% paid tuition scholarship to any state school. I ended up losing it due to poor grades but that's all on me. But my point is that education needs reform in more places than others. Like the poor conditions of school in Detroit and the like.

Why should healthcare be a right? I personally don't think it is a right. It's a privileged that I pay for. Universal healthcare in other countries sucks, because when government controls the kind of coverage you receive, you can no longer get the kind of coverage you may want. How would you like government deciding when to pull the plug on a loved one?
The ACA has screwed health coverage up bad enough already. You keep your universal sound bite.

How stunted will economic growth be if the 1% take their money and/or industry to somewhere with a more favorable tax environment? If you think that doesn't happen, I know of 4,000 Toyota jobs that picked up and moved from California to my back yard for a more friendly tax environment. And Toyota isn't the only one.
What kind of predatory tax and wealth redistribution policy and does it take for the country to start emptying out? I wouldn't want to live here. No money, no jobs, no GDP. Socialism, even democratic socialism, is a failed idea.
Aside from that, you're proposing increasing the size and power of the biggest debtor in the world. Giving them more money and power, instead of cutting them off. Government has always been corrupt, and will never be an entity that I trust.

And by the way, fast food workers in my neighborhood already make $12-15per hour. There's not enough people to fill all the jobs. Help Wanted signs are everywhere.

I would agree that some public schooling is a location based problem. Those of us who live in more affluent areas usually end up spending much more on local bond packages to make up for what the robinhood policies take from our local schools to give to the poorer districts.
But I still get to deal with a lot of fresh out of high school guys, and there's very little between the ears in the way of knowledge and critical thinking and learning ability. Common core has amplified that problem, but even way back when I was in school (I tried out high school sophomore year), it was a big problem that classes were teaching to the standardized tests, instead of teaching knowledge.
And now even colleges are facing problems, with students trying to get teachers they don't like fired...They complain under the guise of racism, sexism or feeling threatened in some way, but they were probably just morons getting bad grades... yeah, the state of education is wonderful.

 

[itzrivera]

For the guy raging over free tuition.
The difference between k-12 and college, aside from the massive amount of debt you can incur due to the fact that guaranteed gov. funds allows colleges to increase tuition every year, is that one is mandatory and the other isn't. If you do not see that difference before arguing for or against "free tuition", then really, there is no point in having an *educated* discussion with you. Further, if you believe simply having a pulse would be the only qualification to free tuition, then please delete your account. This s**t isn't black and white.