2016 Presidental Election

[XpL0d3r]

Why should healthcare be a right? I personally don't think it is a right. It's a privileged that I pay for. Universal healthcare in other countries sucks, because when government controls the kind of coverage you receive, you can no longer get the kind of coverage you may want. How would you like government deciding when to pull the plug on a loved one?
The ACA has screwed health coverage up bad enough already. You keep your universal sound bite.

Because when you see, first hand, someone struggle with an illness simply because they can't afford treatment, what are they supposed to do? Suffer? I think there should be some basic level of healthcare for everyone. If you choose to pay more, or use a privatizes system, you'll get better care. But for the poor to suffer and not afford treatment, they get sicker. They can't get out of the hole they're in. Their families suffer because of it. People always assume an all-or-nothing position; you're either for it or against it. Why can't there be a middle? Regardless of what "side" you're on (which, btw, I think there shouldn't even be democrats or republican sides), if you have a job, you should have some basic level of healthcare. I don't mean literally for-free, because that's when people take advantage. If you can't hold a job due to illness, that's where I am stuck and have no idea on, honestly. I don't want those people to just rot away and die, but I don't want to neglect them either if they truly need assistance. But, moving on, if you have money, even just your average middle-class American, and you want to pay for better service, I'm absolutely ok with that. s**t, I'm not near wealthy, I'm buried in student loans, and if my taxes were to cover those who needed healthcare the most, I rather that then go elsewhere. I think the health of Americans should be #1 priority. We need to take care of ourselves. And it's not impossible. If Canada, with ~35 million people can do it, there has to be some way the USA, with something like ~320 million people, can do it as well. Sure, a much larger population, but we're basically dead last when it comes to healthcare. (http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/us-healthcare-most-expensive-and-worst-performing/372828/)

Taking a step back, if not universal, or near universal health care isn't implemented, what would you suggest? It's clear something needs to be done.

How stunted will economic growth be if the 1% take their money and/or industry to somewhere with a more favorable tax environment? If you think that doesn't happen, I know of 4,000 Toyota jobs that picked up and moved from California to my back yard for a more friendly tax environment. And Toyota isn't the only one.
What kind of predatory tax and wealth redistribution policy and does it take for the country to start emptying out? I wouldn't want to live here. No money, no jobs, no GDP. Socialism, even democratic socialism, is a failed idea.
Aside from that, you're proposing increasing the size and power of the biggest debtor in the world. Giving them more money and power, instead of cutting them off. Government has always been corrupt, and will never be an entity that I trust.

Those 4000 Toyota jobs are not part of the 1%. We're not going to empty out, regardless of who says they will. Some businesses, like Toyota, sure. They may have moved 4000 jobs overseas, but they still have 360000 jobs here in the US! (http://www.toyota.com/usa/operations/fast-facts) In the country, unemployment rate is going down, and US population is increasing. And while I agree that the Gov't is corrupt, that's exactly why social democracy would help. There wouldn't be an overnight change, but voting is fully decided by the people. If you think that's how it works now, you're wrong. I get your point though, the Gov't doesn't need more money. But neither does the 1%. I've said my thoughts, and we've debated them, no problem there. So let me as you -- what would you do to help control wealth inequality? What are your thoughts on trying to get the USA out of debt?

And by the way, fast food workers in my neighborhood already make $12-15per hour. There's not enough people to fill all the jobs. Help Wanted signs are everywhere.

So you're saying there are more people than jobs? Yet, unemployment rate, while trending down, is still nearly 5%. Using my previous estimate of ~320 million Americans, that's ~16 million people without jobs. People are plenty, the people who want to work, maybe not so much.

I would agree that some public schooling is a location based problem. Those of us who live in more affluent areas usually end up spending much more on local bond packages to make up for what the robinhood policies take from our local schools to give to the poorer districts.
But I still get to deal with a lot of fresh out of high school guys, and there's very little between the ears in the way of knowledge and critical thinking and learning ability. Common core has amplified that problem, but even way back when I was in school (I tried out high school sophomore year), it was a big problem that classes were teaching to the standardized tests, instead of teaching knowledge.
And now even colleges are facing problems, with students trying to get teachers they don't like fired...They complain under the guise of racism, sexism or feeling threatened in some way, but they were probably just morons getting bad grades... yeah, the state of education is wonderful.

Students are trying to get their teachers fired? I've heard of a couple occasions where that's happened, but I'm pretty sure it's not an epidemic. I'm not refuting that our education system isn't good - it needs change. I don't agree with standardized tests. I don't agree that schools are teaching kids useless stuff compared to what they need to learn in the real world. I agree that change is needed, but I don't think it's failing. I know plenty of people out of high school who have 0 college under their belt, and are very successful. But I know plenty of people out of that exact same high school who also have 0 college under their belt, and they're dumber than rocks. So in some cases, the system fails at the hands of those who refuse to try and better themselves.

For the guy raging over free tuition.
The difference between k-12 and college, aside from the massive amount of debt you can incur due to the fact that guaranteed gov. funds allows colleges to increase tuition every year, is that one is mandatory and the other isn't. If you do not see that difference before arguing for or against "free tuition", then really, there is no point in having an *educated* discussion with you. Further, if you believe simply having a pulse would be the only qualification to free tuition, then please delete your account. This s**t isn't black and white.

Yep, free tuition =/= Free ride to college. I'm not for 100% free tuition, but lower costs at a bare minimum. Lower costs = higher demand = tougher to get into college. Joe Shmoe isn't going to get a free ride to college if he doesn't want to work for it. College essays still apply. Application fees will deter those who are applying "just because". Deterring slightly, I don't believe that SAT scores should be a factor for college acceptance. I didn't do all that well on my SATs (like 1530 out of 2400), but a friend of mine scored almost 2100 and flunked out of the same major as me.

Also, just for off-topic shits and giggles:

Further, if you believe simply having a pulse would be the only qualification to free tuition, then please delete your account

Not the right thing to say to a mod who can delete yours (I'm kidding though, I'm not a power-hungry douche).

 

[itzrivera]

f**k, I think I may have misworded my post (brain is in vtec but my actual words come out at the rate of a d series). I'm actually for free-tuition. I mean to say that, just because there is free tuition does not mean everyone will take advantage of it; hence my reference to the difference between high-school and college where one is mandatory and the other is not. If high school was not mandatory, I'm willing to bet my lunch that attendance rates would plummet. Just like everyone does not go to college.

I was trying to highlight that not every person in this country will get free tuition, as the person above tried to make it seem by calling socialism a "utopia" of free everything for everyone.

And I'm not shook by your mod powers bro

 

[XpL0d3r]

f**k, I think I may have misworded my post (brain is in vtec but my actual words come out at the rate of a d series). I'm actually for free-tuition. I mean to say that, just because there is free tuition does not mean everyone will take advantage of it; hence my reference to the difference between high-school and college where one is mandatory and the other is not. If high school was not mandatory, I'm willing to bet my lunch that attendance rates would plummet. Just like everyone does not go to college.

I was trying to highlight that not every person in this country will get free tuition, as the person above tried to make it seem by calling socialism a "utopia" of free everything for everyone.

And I'm not shook by your mod powers bro

I agree with you there absolutely. I think we're on the same page. It's tough to implement free tuition because that costs money, but it's definitely not impossible by any means. In the long run, I think it helps America. Less student loans = more spending = higher GDP. None of these changes will be instantaneous, but we need to start somewhere.

 

[joe7987]

I don't think I could be more aligned with @XpL0d3r.

However, to add - I do own my own home. I am in the middle class. I hold a Ph.D, and am very quickly paying off my loans... yet I still support free tuition, universal healthcare, and increased taxes where (I believe is) necessary.

I travel abroad at least once a year (typically to Europe). I was also in Canada last October. I will never ever understand the people who say that universal healthcare and socialist-reminiscent policies do not work in these other countries - that we have some skewed and optimistic view of them working - that the people of other countries are waiting an eternity to make it to the doctor - that people in other countries hate these things and that our media props them up to look better than they are. None of that is true. We are literally laughed at because we do not take care of our own. I have yet to meet someone who is from one of those countries (Canada being the most recent) that has said a negative thing about these things in their home countries.

To top it off, my brother became very ill (fatty liver disease) when we were in Iceland (a country with universal healthcare), and he needed to not only go to the emergency room, but needed to stay in the hospital for 3 days. There was no wait time. There was no shortage of rooms. They fed us well and frequently (yes, us... the non-patients) for free. They said, since we were not Icelandic, our medical bills would be very high, but we had no choice but to pay them. My brother had a CT scan, sonogram, blood tests, urinalysis, etc. as they tried to figure out what was wrong with him. The medical bill after all of those tests and a 3 day stay - under $1,000 USD. This was for outsiders - I can only imagine if we were Icelandic, and having this all done for free (and before you jump there - no, there was no visible discrimination between us and the Icelandic who were waiting with us. They didn't jump to us because we were giving them extra money). Universal healthcare works. They only evidence I've seen against it is the voice of people who oppose it - who do not present any evidence, themselves.

 

[Killa_CiViC]

Taking a step back, if not universal, or near universal health care isn't implemented, what would you suggest? It's clear something needs to be done.

My grandmother was uninsurable due to diabetes and heart disease. Somehow, the hospital treating her took out an insurance policy on her behalf, which covered almost all her expenses. Medicaid picked up the rest. I don't know the ins and outs of how it worked, but this was way before the ACA, and she never paid a dime out of pocket for years of special treatment.

I don't know of any person that actually gets turned away from treatment. People unable to afford insurance were helped out by medicare and medicaid. People who can't work due to disability have also already been covered, and it all already came out of my paycheck.... and I still think healthcare is a privileged, not an entitlement.

Personally, I'd like the ACA to go away, and have the ability to buy insurance across state lines instead of having to rely on the stupid government site. I think competition brings down prices. The ACA provisions also took away the option, for those of us who rarely get sick, to buy major medical only policies... I want government out of my insurance, period. I want to buy as much or as little as I want.
There is an issue with homeless and mentally infirm, but that's a different issue entirely and unrelated to healthcare, IMO.

Those 4000 Toyota jobs are not part of the 1%.

This was just an example. Companies, the 1%, hell, the 5%, will always go where it is more economically viable to go, and do what it is most profitable to do.
Top 3 fastest growing cities in America for 2015 are in Texas, thanks to in part to low taxes. It's good for business.

In the country, unemployment rate is going down, and US population is increasing. And while I agree that the Gov't is corrupt, that's exactly why social democracy would help. There wouldn't be an overnight change, but voting is fully decided by the people. If you think that's how it works now, you're wrong. I get your point though, the Gov't doesn't need more money. But neither does the 1%. I've said my thoughts, and we've debated them, no problem there. So let me as you -- what would you do to help control wealth inequality? What are your thoughts on trying to get the USA out of debt?

The argument for income inequality is kind of a joke, when the top three richest men in America didn't start out wealthy. The also started what are now massive companies that employ thousands, upon thousands of people.
Income inequality is another sound bite to pit the haves against the have-nots.
I will admit, it's seems to be easy to stay rich, once you are rich, but it's not impossible for anyone. And no one should be punished for being rich.

Also, last I checked, the unemployment numbers are still putting unemployment at around 10%, if you figure the real numbers, and not just what the labor department puts out. ( http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/02/chart-whats-the-real-unemployment-rate.html )

As for getting the U.S. out of debt... It should be clear by now, I'm for hacking away at government and government programs. Take away all the spending. The less government, the less opportunity for waste and corruption. Government always spends more than it makes. Instead of giving them a raise so they can spend more, our government needs to learn to live within its means.
Instead of raising taxes and having over complicated tax code with all kinds of loopholes, I'm for an easy to figure flat percentage tax, on both income and capital gains... I still think that taxes are robbery, but government is no good at business decisions, so they can't possibly earn their own money.

On the subject of government waste, I'd also like to impose term limits on congress.

So you're saying there are more people than jobs? Yet, unemployment rate, while trending down, is still nearly 5%. Using my previous estimate of ~320 million Americans, that's ~16 million people without jobs. People are plenty, the people who want to work, maybe not so much.

That's not what I said.

Students are trying to get their teachers fired?

Latest victim I've heard about here ( http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/03/pc-hysteria-claims-another-professor.html )
Dave Rubin of The Rubin Report has been doing some good pieces on the issue.
It's happening everywhere. An Australian friend of mine who works with universities there says they're having the same issues.

 

[HockeyZombies]

Cruz . Really I just want the US to win and quit losing. America can send astronauts to space but our domestic cars are garbage. I would even vote for the director of FBI Jim Comey because he is equal on everything and doesnt take sides left or right. Would like to see a Cruz-Carson or Cruz-Lt Col. Allen West. I love African-American whom are Republican/Conservative as it gives white liberals no place to run and lie. Remember to thank a service member for your freedom as many died so we have it.

 

[xxBLOOD88SHOTxx]

When it comes to corruption it isn't just " the government is corrupt get rid of all of it". PEOPLE are corrupt and foul. From the burger flippers to CEOs to the police to entertainers to doctors etc. If it isn't the government ripping you off it will be someone else and that is a fact. People are the problem, plain and simple. So until someone figures out how to remedy that the s**t isn't going to change.

 

[connies96hatchie]

I am a registered Republican and I'm voting for Hilary because she's the lesser evil of all evils.

 

[Steven Johnson]

Honestly, I'm thinking about not voting. No matter who I decide to go with, the country is going to be f**ked up. I think I'll just look for some land in Canada. Anyone have a spare room for me, my two son's and my lady? LOL

 

[Killa_CiViC]

This article came out during the last election cycle, but I think it's still pretty relevant
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/calling-truce-political-wars/

And then this monologue is for the trump supporters.

"Don't be fooled. You're being sold a bill of goods by someone who only wants to make the deal. When the product sucks, don't expect to get a refund"

 

[nd4sped]

Honestly, I'm thinking about not voting. No matter who I decide to go with, the country is going to be f**ked up. I think I'll just look for some land in Canada. Anyone have a spare room for me, my two son's and my lady? LOL

That's the wrong idea, your vote counts just as the other 100,000 people who are saying the exact same thing.

 

[xxBLOOD88SHOTxx]

He's saying that even if those 100,000 vote it's still all going to end in a s**t storm anyway.

 

[Cooper12]

I am a registered Republican and I'm voting for Hilary because she's the lesser evil of all evils.

she should be in prison

 

[HeX]

I am a registered Republican and I'm voting for Hilary because she's the lesser evil of all evils.

Ha! talk about being misguided. She's probably THE worse candidate.

Honestly, I'm thinking about not voting. No matter who I decide to go with, the country is going to be f**ked up. I think I'll just look for some land in Canada. Anyone have a spare room for me, my two son's and my lady? LOL

I'm with you, although I know I wont vote. This is arguably the least important election in a very long time. No candidates are significantly better or worse than any other, with my personal feeling that Hillary is the worse because she carries herself like someone with a huge chip on her shoulder that wreaks desperation and overcompensation. With that said, the winner wont matter because this country is headed into a very rough period regardless of who's the president.

 

[XpL0d3r]

EVERY Presidential election is important.

 

[Joe Mason]

This is a truly scary time to be an American. I'm totally undecided at this point. I generally prefer libertarian candidates, but there's just never enough support for that party.

 

[XpL0d3r]

To be totally honest, I think the parties are stupid. I think it divides us. Here in NY, we have a closed primary, which is so, so incredibly stupid. So basically, if you registered republican, you MUST vote republican. I have a few friends who generally support that party, but this year tend to like Bernie over any Republican candidate. But they can't vote for him. I also have one friend who's liberal but for some reason loves Trump... and he's stuck voting for a liberal.

I think the party system needs to go away... everyone talks about equality and being fair nowadays, so why does this system still exist? If I register to vote, I should be able to vote for whoever I damn well want to vote for. For who I think is the most qualified OVERALL, not just the most qualified within a party. A party is really just people with similar beliefs. Sounds like religion, IMO. On top of that, here in NYS, anyone who registers independent basically has no voice in the primaries.

NYS votes tomorrow, so for anyone in this state -- go vote. Don't be a lazy f**k. Even if you don't like any of the candidates - go research their policies and form an opinion.

 

[XpL0d3r]

So... f**k this election. We doomed.

 

[HeX]

The country is screwed no matter who wins, its only of matter of how each one fails. But the presidency is mostly a figurehead position and will be that more so with whomever wins this time. As bad as they both are, everything the country's been through over the last several years has lead to another 4 years of difficulty regardless of who's president. Most people fail to realize that decisions made during a presidency don't really take into significant effect until the following term or longer. I just hope decision making is kept to a minimum over the next 4 years.

So... I dislike Trump mostly in regards to foreign affairs as he basically embodies what other countries despise about the US; a filthy rich self-entitled "white" man who feels he can buy himself into or out of anything. That alone is too much to risk. Hillary has always stricken me as someone who has too big a chip on her shoulder to prove against, with a subdued attitude and just fake in an arrogantly manipulative way, worse than typical politicians that are all that way to begin with. She makes me think she'll do some things just to prove a point. And its sad to say, but many other countries who are misogynistic will likely look down at the wife of a former president who doesn't really care for her. Either way, it would take an absolute miracle for either one to be elected for a 2nd term so this is a 4-year lease until some worthy candidates become available for the next election.

 

[XpL0d3r]

The country is screwed no matter who wins, its only of matter of how each one fails. But the presidency is mostly a figurehead position and will be that more so with whomever wins this time. As bad as they both are, everything the country's been through over the last several years has lead to another 4 years of difficulty regardless of who's president. Most people fail to realize that decisions made during a presidency don't really take into significant effect until the following term or longer. I just hope decision making is kept to a minimum over the next 4 years.

So... I dislike Trump mostly in regards to foreign affairs as he basically embodies what other countries despise about the US; a filthy rich self-entitled "white" man who feels he can buy himself into or out of anything. That alone is too much to risk. Hillary has always stricken me as someone who has too big a chip on her shoulder to prove against, with a subdued attitude and just fake in an arrogantly manipulative way, worse than typical politicians that are all that way to begin with. She makes me think she'll do some things just to prove a point. And its sad to say, but many other countries who are misogynistic will likely look down at the wife of a former president who doesn't really care for her. Either way, it would take an absolute miracle for either one to be elected for a 2nd term so this is a 4-year lease until some worthy candidates become available for the next election.

Yep, I mostly completely agree! Unfortunately, whoever becomes the next President will have 1-2 Supreme Court Justices to appoint. That position is lifetime. So, that can very well effect the future of America like you said. If Trump gets in, and appoints 2 Republicans, the future will likely be much different if Hillary wins and appoints 2 Democrats.

Honestly at this point I wish both candidates would simply fall off a cliff.