6th Gen Power Folding Mirrors Wiring

[Wreckless Hype]

Correct. Aside from the folding function, the PFM and OEM mirrors are identical circuit- and pinout- wise. By process of elimination, the two extra wires in the PFM mirror connector control the folding function. Again, fold-in versus fold-out are controlled by the polarity of the current. How could you easily determine which polarity controls which direction?

Easily determine? I'm not sure, I guess I'm over thinking it... If the switch is depressed, I should get continuity on the whichever wire is my fold-in and also the ground?

You received mix and match parts.

Yep. Dude's a jackass. But that's mostly my fault for sourcing them from an unreliable seller.

Correct, assuming that the circuitry of the OEM and PFM switches isn't reversed. This is where the continuity tests on the switch will become invaluable. Of course, you first need to verify that left = up.

So if I remembered it incorrectly and hitting RIGHT actually moves the mirror UP, then my common should be correct and the polarity should be correct, just the 2 cables for direction are in the wrong position.

Correct. So do you think that pins 3 and 5 are reversed or matched in the OEM and PFM switches?

Not sure why they'd go through the trouble of mixing up the common, U/D, and L/R pins on switches made for the same years. I would go and make an educated guess that the common is in the correct spot here, but since my U/D did nothing, it seems that is can't be in the right spot and my common has to be pin 5? A continuity test would tell me there is a connection between pin 3 and 5 on the L/R motion for the Left mirror, but not polarity. So I would need to try pin 5 and another on the Left mirror until I get continuity on the Up/Down motion to tell me that 5 is infact the common, 3 is the L/R (or actually the U/D in this case) and whatever the other pin is my actual L/R movement. Or if my polarity is correct, I would test pin 3 in place of pin 5 in the previous test.

According to the diagrams where Yellow / Red is the common, it is the common for both movements on both mirrors. So once I find the common, continuity tests will hit the wires on the motions I am looking for when going off of the common?

 

[RonJ]

If the switch is depressed, I should get continuity on the whichever wire is my fold-in and also the ground

Is the switch button press-and-hold or press-and-let-go?

At the mirror connector, you can determine the polarity needed for retraction versus extension as follows:

1) Connect one spare wire to the + battery post and another to the - post.

2) For the 2 extra wires in the PFM connector, touch one to the + wire and one to the - wire. The mirror will retract/extend (outcome depends on current position) or do nothing. If nothing happens, reversing the wire polarity should cause the mirror to retract/extend. Upon completion of the test, mark a wire that caused mirror retraction (or extension) when it was connected to the + battery wire.

This information should help you determine the correct polarity for connecting the 2 folding wires to the switch.

So if I remembered it incorrectly and hitting RIGHT actually moves the mirror UP, then my common should be correct and the polarity should be correct, just the 2 cables for direction are in the wrong position.

Not sure why they'd go through the trouble of mixing up the common, U/D, and L/R pins on switches made for the same years. I would go and make an educated guess that the common is in the correct spot here, but since my U/D did nothing, it seems that is can't be in the right spot and my common has to be pin 5? A continuity test would tell me there is a connection between pin 3 and 5 on the L/R motion for the Left mirror, but not polarity. So I would need to try pin 5 and another on the Left mirror until I get continuity on the Up/Down motion to tell me that 5 is infact the common, 3 is the L/R (or actually the U/D in this case) and whatever the other pin is my actual L/R movement. Or if my polarity is correct, I would test pin 3 in place of pin 5 in the previous test.

According to the diagrams where Yellow / Red is the common, it is the common for both movements on both mirrors. So once I find the common, continuity tests will hit the wires on the motions I am looking for when going off of the common?

The easiest and most informative continuity tests are with the unplugged PFM switch. These tests will sort out all the ambiguities of pins and polarity.

The switch is divided into two functionally distinct sides - power and ground - regardless of the switch setting. The fact that power enters at pin 2 and that ground is supplied at pin 4 allows you to determine the pinouts for both sides of the switch.

Specifically:

Test set A) To test the power side of the switch, measure continuity between pin 2 and all other pins, except pin 4.

Test set B) To test the ground side of the switch, measure continuity between pin 4 and all other pins, except pin 2.

You also must repeat tests A and B in all of the different switch settings. The example below shows expected results for your OEM switch, though your test results with the PFM switch will obviously differ. Create a table like the posted one for your continuity tests with the PFM switch and post it.

 

[Wreckless Hype]

Is the switch button press-and-hold or press-and-let-go?

Press the fold switch and it stays depressed, push it again and it sticks out, pretty much the same as your fog light switch.

The easiest and most informative continuity tests are with the unplugged PFM switch. These tests will sort out all the ambiguities of pins and polarity.

I ran a test with every pin combination I could think of, making sure I even doubled over some for consistency. (Pin 1 w/ all, then Pin 2 w/ 1 and then all, etc)

The switch is divided into two functionally distinct sides - power and ground - regardless of the switch setting. The fact that power enters at pin 2 and that ground is supplied at pin 4 allows you to determine the pinouts for both sides of the switch.

Pin 4 only showed up on a couple results with continuity and it was while hitting UP only. 2 showed up on a couple also with Up and Left. Odd. (I'll show it in results)

Specifically:

Test set A) To test the power side of the switch, measure continuity between pin 2 and all other pins, except pin 4.

Test set B) To test the ground side of the switch, measure continuity between pin 4 and all other pins, except pin 2.

You also must repeat tests A and B in all of the different switch settings. The example below shows expected results for your OEM switch, though your test results with the PFM switch will obviously differ. Create a table like the posted one for your continuity tests with the PFM switch and post it.

Working on it currently. I'm a little confused with just raw data because the folding switch position affected some of the results, so maybe the table will help and comparing the wiring with the OEM diagram.

 

[RonJ]

Press the fold switch and it stays depressed, push it again and it sticks out, pretty much the same as your fog light switch.

Ah, a toggle switch.

I ran a test with every pin combination I could think of, making sure I even doubled over some for consistency. (Pin 1 w/ all, then Pin 2 w/ 1 and then all, etc). Pin 4 only showed up on a couple results with continuity and it was while hitting UP only. 2 showed up on a couple also with Up and Left. Odd. (I'll show it in results). Working on it currently.

I'll wait for the full results. Note that, like the folding switch, the left mirror and right mirror are toggle switches, whereas you must hold the L, R, U, and D position buttons.

the folding switch position affected some of the results

This^ is expected.

 

[Wreckless Hype]

So here's my results, explanation underneath:

I had to break up colors on the cell backgrounds, it was driving me nuts...

SO the colored lines are like this:
RED line is when the "Fold" button is OUT, switch is disengaged
BLUE line is when the "Fold" button is IN, switch is engaged
PURPLE line is when the "Fold" button is in ANY position, engaged or disengaged. Testing the continuity while pressing the button in and out, solid ton, never skipped a beat.

When the FOLD button is IN (engaged), I get continuity on 1-6 and 2-5
When the FOLD button is OUT (disengaged), I get continuity on 1-5 and 2-6

If I'm any good at this Sherlock Holmes s***, I'd say that,
3 is not invited to the party at all
1 is my ignition
7 is Left Up/Down
9 is Left Left/Right
8 is Right Up/Down
10 is Right Left/Right

2 we know is power
4 we know is the ground

5 and 6 are my folding wires
Since I get continuity on pins 1-5 and 2-6 when the FOLD button is in, I'm going to say that this is the folding action.
Since 7 and 9 are LEFT side numbers and 8 and 10 are RIGHT side numbers, I'd like to make an educated guess that 5 is my LEFT mirror and 6 is my RIGHT mirror.
I have a feeling that the last bit is actually not relevant...

On the OEM PM, UP and RIGHT share the same continuity on pins 3 and 4 on both sides, DOWN and LEFT share pins 2 and 3. This doesn't seem to replicate over to the PFM switch. Odd, but I guess it's somewhat irrelevant.

 

[RonJ]

Beautiful presentation of the data!

Quick question about your pin numbers. The OEM switch pinout I posted is numbered from the orientation indicated in the diagram below (rear side of female connector or front side of male connector). I just want to make sure your pin number system is the same versus reversed where pin 1 is actually pin 4.

 

[Wreckless Hype]

Beautiful presentation of the data!

Thanks much for your help on this. Thought it came together nicely for my first try at this.

Quick question about your pin numbers. The OEM switch pinout I posted is numbered from the orientation indicated in the diagram below (rear side of female connector or front side of male connector). I just want to make sure your pin number system is the same versus reversed where pin 1 is actually pin 4.

(In case anyone else reads this, I hope it helps) It was a pain in the ass to get the alligator clips into the switch to hit the pins and not touch other pins or touch clips together. I just popped two on the clips out of the connector to use on their own.

I in turn used the clips to attach to pins separately to make it easier. To answer your questions about the numbering, I used the original OEM clip pinout that you posted:

So here I have the red wire on pin 1 and the black on pin 4

 

[RonJ]

Important preliminary observation:

Note that your pin out is identical to the 96-00 Civic switch WITH the defogger function. Therefore, the circuit for the PFM switch must be the same, aside from the added fold function, and pin 1 is power and pin 2 is ground. The concerning differences are the absence of expected continuity at pin 2 with other pins only in the D and R positions, suggesting that the switch is bad.

I recommend that you contact the seller for a refund or replacement ASAP.

 

[RonJ]

Ignoring the defogger part of the circuit, here is the circuit diagram for the (bad) PFM switch that you have:

 

[Wreckless Hype]

Important preliminary observation:

Note that your pin out is identical to the 96-00 Civic switch WITH the defogger function. Therefore, the circuit for the PFM switch must be the same, aside from the added fold function, and pin 1 is power and pin 2 is ground. The concerning difference is the absence of expected continuity at position 2 with other pins only in the D and R positions, suggesting that the switch is bad.

I suggest you contact the seller ASAP.

Well s***. I didn't even bother to look at the switch with the defogger option. I guess it would be why I couldn't find this switch anywhere else.

I'm curious on the specifics on "position 2", what is that precisely and what am I losing there, so I can address this when I touch base with the seller.

I mean, the colors are off, and I still have trouble following and making out the circuits a little bit, but this last diagram doesn't look to have a power folding option..

 

[RonJ]

Well s***. I didn't even bother to look at the switch with the defogger option. I guess it would be why I couldn't find this switch anywhere else.

I'm curious on the specifics on "position 2", what is that precisely and what am I losing there, so I can address this when I touch base with the seller.

Typo. It should read pin 2. I'll fix in my original post.

 

[Wreckless Hype]

Typo. It should read pin 2. I'll fix in my original post.

Ah, so you mean how DOWN and RIGHT have no continuity on pin 2, either side?

 

[RonJ]

I mean, the colors are off, and I still have trouble following and making out the circuits a little bit, but this last diagram doesn't look to have a power folding option..

Do you mean wire colors? If so, that's unimportant.

The last circuit diagram is for 96-00 Civic switch WITH the defogger function but lacking the folding mirror function. So if you just focus on the common part of the circuit (left and right mirror U, D, L, R) the circuit is a perfect match for your PFM switch, except for the pin 2 defects I pointed out.

Ah, so you mean how DOWN and RIGHT have no continuity on pin 2, either side?

Exactly --> bad switch.

 

[Wreckless Hype]

Do you mean wire colors? If so, that's unimportant.

The last circuit diagram is for 96-00 Civic switch WITH the defogger function not the folding mirror function. So if you just focus on the common part of the circuit (left and right mirror U, D, L, R) the circuit is a perfect match for your PFM switch, except for pin 2 defects I pointed out.

Right. I had misunderstood, so yea, forget the colors. Aside from that, I can kind of follow the basic connections (leaving out the ones affected by FOLD button out only or in only).

So either way, I should have continuity on pin 2-4 for Down and 2-7 and 8 for Left side Right movement and Right side Right movement respectively, whether the FOLD button is engaged or not, which I have none. So then adjusting the mirrors will not work properly for those 2 motions. Dude owes me a new effing switch.

 

[RonJ]

Dude owes me a new effing switch.

This^ sums it up.

Send him the test results and last circuit diagram, pointing out the pin2 continuity defects for the D and R switch positions. Request a full refund or functional replacement.

 

[Wreckless Hype]

This^ sums it up.

Send him the test results and last circuit diagram, pointing out the pin2 continuity defects for the D and R switch positions. Request a full refund or functional replacement.

Already done. Now it's a waiting game...

 

[Wreckless Hype]

Was already contacted about the switch. Guy said it was fine when it was tested. I mentioned it doesn't change the fact that it's bad now and reiterated the details in the testing. Replacement switch will be on it's way. I'll have to do another continuity test on the new switch to make sure it's the same part...

If it is the same:

(I'm a little confused by this) On the OEM switch currently in the car:

Pull pin 2 (Black / Blue), repin to #1 position (empty)
Pull pin 3 (Yellow / Red), repin to #2 position (newly empty)
Leave pin 4
Pull pin 5 (Blue / White), repin to #7 position (empty)
Pull pin 6 (Blue / Black), Pull pin 9 (Green / White), pin 6 - repin to #9 position, Pull pin 8 (Yellow / Black), pin 9 repin to #8 position, pin 8 repin to #10 position
Extra pins need be inserted into now empty pin 5 and 6 positions for folding operation

We thought originally that pin 2 was power and needed to be left alone. But my continuity test shows that pin 1 shows the same continuity activity as pin 2 on the OEM switch. So was the original claim that 2 is power incorrect? It seems pin 2 is my common instead. Or maybe I'm looking at this wrong?

 

[RonJ]

On the OEM switch connector currently in the car:

Corrections:

#2 (Blk/Yel) --> #1

#4 (Blk) --> #2

#3 (Yel/Red) --> #4

#5 (Blu/Wht) --> #9

#6 (Blu/Blk) --> #7

#8 (Yel/Blk) --> #10

#9 (Grn/Wht) --> #8

 

[RonJ]

We thought originally that pin 2 was power and needed to be left alone. But my continuity test shows that pin 1 shows the same continuity activity as pin 2 on the OEM switch.

Yes. Therefore, when you plugged the PFM switch into your OEM connector, you fed battery voltage into the ground side of the switch. This voltage had nowhere (normal) to ground. Implications left unstated (clears throat).

So was the original claim that 2 is power incorrect? It seems pin 2 is my ground instead.

You are correct.

 

[Wreckless Hype]

Corrections:

#2 (Blk/Yel) --> #1

#4 (Blk) --> #2

#3 (Yel/Red) --> #4

#5 (Blu/Wht) --> #9

#6 (Blu/Blk) --> #7

#8 (Yel/Blk) --> #10

#9 (Grn/Wht) --> #8

Too much early, not enough coffee...

So I'm looking at my results vs the OEM PM diagram you provided in the 4th post. Pin 5 is my Left side, Up/Down control, so wouldn't I put that on the new location where I got Up/Down continuity on the PFM switch? That's pin 7, not 9. I experienced no continuity at all for Up/Down on pin 9 for the left side... Now I'm really confused.

Yes. Therefore, when you plugged the PFM switch into your OEM connector, you fed battery voltage into the ground side of the switch. This voltage had nowhere (normal) to ground. Implications left unstated.

Implications maybe, but I'm still really new at this so confirming helps me understand a little better what I'm actually looking at.

So I'm looking at 3 wires for power - Ignition (12v feed from battery), Ground, and what Honda labels Common. So my ground is pin 2, gotcha. My ignition would be 1. My Common is going to be pin 4, which is where power travels to the motors for mirror motion and whichever circuit is closed, is where the power is traveling, determines which mirror is moving where?