7th gen. Hondas

[Hondaman4ever]

Hi.

Just had my '98 Civic totaled (woke up in the morning to find 3/4 of the drivers side badly damaged apparently by some reckless soul-less person who never left a note or anything) and now I have to find another car.
Almost all of my previous Civics were 6th gen but I'm thinking about getting something different this time (7th gen one). Money is an issue for me and I'm wondering if the upgrade is worth it. To those who've owned both 6th and 7th gen Civics, are there any advantages to the 7th over the 6th, or maybe the other way around? Also, within the 7th gen civics, is the difference between an '01 and a '04 only cosmetic?

I know 6th gen civics have double wishbone in the front while 7th have macpherson struts. All I care about is a quieter car ( I find 6th gen civics to be a little too noisy inside). Are 7th gen quieter? Don't care about racing.

I hear 7th gen have tranny (automatic) issues but I only buy standard anyway.

Thank you.

 

[XpL0d3r]

I've owned a 6th gen, and an ex of mine owned a 7th gen. Personally, the 7th gen drove smoother, but I never really noticed it being either louder or quieter. She had noisy winter tires.

Maybe @joe7987 can chime in a bit here -- he's a 7th gen owner!

 

[Kyle Jilbert]

I know the 01 is the only 7th gen without a rear sway bar if that is something of concern, but the differences within 01-05 are mostly small things that don't really affect daily driving


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[joe7987]

7th gen owner here, but have never owned a 6th. I always thought the car was relatively well-insulated from noise. Also, I have an automatic, and haven't had any tranny issues yet.

Yes, the 01-03 and 04 are almost identical, barring the aesthetics (bumpers, and taillights being the most noticeable). There may be some slight difference, but I know that nearly all performance parts are interchangeable. Engine is the same. Etc. Also, you'll notice a difference between the 01-02EX and the 03EX (03 has different rims).

I can't think of any other advantages, one way or the other, between 7th and 6th. My understanding is that the 6ths are a little faster and handle a little better, but I can't confirm. Either way, I don't think it's a major difference, and my 7th handles just fine (and responded very well to suspension upgrades).

 

[Hondaman4ever]

Thank you all for the replies.

"My understanding is that the 6ths are a little faster". Oh I hope that's not the case. I felt the '98s were pretty gutless compared to a '96 Corolla I once drove and even compared to my '95 Civic, which felt peppier than the '98's . I'd really like a little more power. And like I said I'd like something a little quieter than the 6th gen Civics. If the 7th gen Civics are neither quieter nor a little more powerful and handle worse than the 6th gen then I see no reason to get one.

 

[dancam]

I disliked the 4 civics ive had from the 7th gen. Never drove a 6th gen though. They are quieter than a 4th gen with a fart can! but i consider them to have a relatively high maintenance cost, super boring to drive, no character or spirit, and uncomfortable seats. I can drive 14hrs straight only stopping to gas up in my 93 festiva and still be fine but i cant make it more than 2 hours in the civic without stopping to get out. They are good on gas- which is why i have it still, and they do go decently but you have to rev them up, just like any small engine. Head gaskets are super common to go on these cars. I think they are reasonably quiet but find a used car dealer and go for a test drive in one.


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[Hondaman4ever]

Thanks, dancam. Yeah I get the uncomfortable seat thing. I get tired sitting in my car after a couple of hours but then I have a back problem and no matter how or where I sit I get tired after a while. They're not terrible or nothing.

Head gasket problem -or that's what it looked like- is why I sent my '95 Civic to the crushers. But the car had 388,000 KMs on it and the 3 years I had it I never had to fix anything except a small hole around the muffler. I think it was a better made car and more reliable than the ones made after '95 (maybe because it was made in Japan).

So the 7th Civics have the same problem with head gaskets as the previous gen?

 

[Anthony_76]

My aunt has a '04 LX 5MT 1.7 D series. I've driven it many many times, and here is what I can say from my experience. (I've owned 3 6th gens, have a '00 EX Coupe now) The 1.7 is less peppy than the 1.6 in the 6th gens. As far as noise, I haven't noticed any difference. The 7th gen is a bigger car, and the gearbox is tighter, what I mean is the H pattern is more narrow. I don't think the 1.7 gets any better mileage than my 1.6, so as far as I'm concerned, there's no upgrade in my opinion. Oh and I wouldn't want a 7th gen because of the chip keys, they are very expensive to replace, and the 1.6 is very reliable and great balance of power and fuel economy. The 1.7 also has coil-over plug design, you'd think that'd make them faster but nope. Haven't had any issues with head gaskets.

 

[Hondaman4ever]

Thanks, Anthony. Good enough. In that case I think I'll be sticking to the 6th gen then. I'll probably look for a '99 or '00 though. I don't care about the bigger body of the 7ths. And I definitely don't want an even a slower car.

I've owned 4 Civics and the only one that had the head gasket problem was that '95 but like I said it had close to 400,000 KMs on it and I never really treated that car with care.

 

[lo-n-slo]

The D17 was made to be an economy car good on gas. On paper the D16 produces more power and torque.
However, I drove one the other day and it put my 97 with a y8 to shame.

 

[XpL0d3r]

The D17 was made to be an economy car good on gas. On paper the D16 produces more power and torque.
However, I drove one the other day and it put my 97 with a y8 to shame.

7th gens actually make slightly more power and torque than 6th gens. EX models are the same, though peak HP on the 6th gen EX is at a little bit higher RPM and slightly lower compression.

6th gen: http://www.clubcivic.com/forum/pages/6th-gen-honda-civic-specs/
7th gen: http://www.clubcivic.com/forum/pages/7th-gen-honda-civic-specs/

 

[dancam]

They arent the worst cars, never left me stranded... I still would recommend test driving one to compare. They are chip keys, about $145/key here to copy them and $400 if you loose your keys to get a new one.
I dont know what the head gasket issue with other gens are, here is what i posted in another thread about the head gaskets. Again, it doesnt happen to every car obviously, its just quite common, they arent the worst cars out there.

I believe its your coolant boiling at about 230f. I believe the temperature gauges on these cars are faulty. I will paste something i wrote a while back here.
out of curiosity i read up a fair bit online about people having head gasket problems with their 01-05 Honda civics. i have one and the cooling system setup seemed odd to me and i wasn't sure why they had such cold thermostats. what i discovered is that almost everyone (not all, but almost) who has a head gasket go has it happen right around 110-140k with the most being at 120. that is right when the first scheduled coolant flush is and many people mention just that-that they just had their cooling system serviced by Honda or someone else. with these Honda's the heater core is the high point in the cooling system. if you drain the coolant the only reliable way to get all the air back out is to jack the front of the car up till the muffler almost hits the ground then bleed the air out. if you don't there is a good chance (not guaranteed) that you will trap air in the heater core, which will at some point move into the block or cause issues and cause a hot spot in the motor and cause the head gasket to go.
also where the thermostat housing meets the block there are passages where coolant, oil and exhaust all pass through into the thermostat housing very close together. there is possibility for leaks there.
also i have a mechanical water temperature gage on my civic in addition to the one on the dash. as the car warms up they match, but as soon as the thermostat opens at 170f the one on the dash stops! the mechanical one will continue to climb until it reaches 205f when the fans turn on but the one on the dash does not move! my previous civic (2005) had a rad fan that would sometimes quit. i had it twice where i was stopped at a stoplight and i could hear my coolant boiling. got out and opened the hood and my overflow cap had blown right off and boiling coolant was shooting all over my engine bay out of it and the temperature gage was still below half both times! it had perfect operation from cold to where it stops just below half but would never move higher. so i believe that people are overheating their motors without even knowing it.



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[5SpeedEJ6]

mmmh ok so I guess 'll be the devil's advocate.. I would not go with a 7th gen civic. D17 engines are known to fail early, their trannies are no better, and to me personally they don't look half as good as any other older civic. Ride quality was not much better in my opinion compared to my 6th gen (my buddy had a 7th gen). Side note I never liked McPherson struts, so maybe I am a little biased lol. But on a serious note, I watched my buddy go through so much crap with the car before it finally gave out (with 153k he threw a rod driving down the road normally without beating it).

 

[dancam]

Yes, they throw rods and main bearings a lot, on cars that never get driven hard.


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[Hondaman4ever]

mmmh ok so I guess 'll be the devil's advocate.. I would not go with a 7th gen civic. D17 engines are known to fail early, their trannies are no better, and to me personally they don't look half as good as any other older civic. Ride quality was not much better in my opinion compared to my 6th gen (my buddy had a 7th gen). Side note I never liked McPherson struts, so maybe I am a little biased lol. But on a serious note, I watched my buddy go through so much crap with the car before it finally gave out (with 153k he threw a rod driving down the road normally without beating it).

Wow! That's not good. It doesn't sound like a Civic should be.

 

[Hondaman4ever]

Well, thanks again to all of you. I appreciate it. Like I said, I think I'm just going to stick to the 6th gen. A '99 or '00 maybe. I like the way they look - maybe even better than the early 7ths. But how come all the 6th gen I come across (including the one I have and the one I had before it) are 1.5, not 1.6? Is one any better than the other ?


One thing I like about the 6th gen over the 7th is that their tail lights still have the amber color, unlike the stupid all red in 7th. I think that was a bad idea and I don't understand why they switched to this stupid design.

 

[5SpeedEJ6]

Well, thanks again to all of you. I appreciate it. Like I said, I think I'm just going to stick to the 6th gen. A '99 or '00 maybe. I like the way they look - maybe even better than the early 7ths. But how come all the 6th gen I come across (including the one I have and the one I had before it) are 1.5, not 1.6? Is one any better than the other ?


One thing I like about the 6th gen over the 7th is that their tail lights still have the amber color, unlike the stupid all red in 7th. I think that was a bad idea and I don't understand why they switched to this stupid design.

I might sound dumb but I've never seen a 96-00 civic with a D15 in it personally, so I can't really help you with why lol.
I never understood why some companies have all red tail lights, I've always loved the amber look for a blinker instead of read, or having the break light blink like some other cars (some cop cars).

 

[Hondaman4ever]

An all red tail light is less attractive and I also consider it more hazardous. I can say without a doubt seeing an amber flash ahead of me gets my attention more than the red especially at night. I often get confused not knowing if the car/s (with an all red tail light) ahead of me is/are braking -especially in heavy traffic when drivers keep hitting their brakes- or if it wants to make a turn or merge into my lane especially when you can't see both tail lights of that car (sometimes it's obscured, broken or there's a car between my car and the other car...). But when you see amber flashing you know it's signaling for a turn. No second guessing and no confusion. All-red tail light is really a stupid design and I don't get why more and more manufacturers are switching to it.

Maybe I'm wrong about the 1.5 in my car. I thought I once had to call the junk yard for some parts and I remember hearing 1.5. Could be wrong.

 

[dancam]

People use signals where your from? Lol


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[lowlife9]

actually there is a difference because honda upgraded the internal automatic transmission filter on the 04-05 that was causing failures on the 01-03. also someone stated that all 04-05 have rear sway bars which is not true the 04-05 LX and VP do not have stock rear sway bars.