boost and compression level

eastcoastrsxs

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ok, im bored and want to flex my brain, and this is a topic that many people do not agree on, some say that you cannot run turbo cars on a high compression motor, some say you can and it actually will run better, well heres my facts on the matter, lets say you have a stock b18c1 with 10:1 compression, now, atmospheric pressure is 14.7psi at sea level, so where gonna use that, so when your motor intakes a stroke of air and fuel an comresses it it has turned that 14.7 and multiplyed it by 10, to 147psi.
so that was an easy one, now, lets say you stick a turbo on that motor and run 8psi of boost, now at peak boost you will have the 14.7 plus the 8psi of boost, making 22.7 psi going into your motor on the intake stroke, now compress that by 10 and u have 227psi
ok, so now we change pistons and lower the compression to 9:1 we run the same boost of 8psi so we have the 22.7psi going in but only comressing it by 9 wich gives us 204.3psi, wich is less than with stock comression, wich means we will make less power, this is where the common missconception comes in that you can run more boost with a lower compression motor, well it is true, but your making more boost to compensate for the lack of compression that your motor has. you see, to get the same power out of the lower compression motor you would have to run 10.5psi(10.522 to be exact) of boost, add the 14.7 wich makes 25.22 and multiply that by 9 giving us the 227 wich is the same amount of compression at TDC as the stock compression motor.
now, running 10.5psi of boost to get the same power is going to have drawbacks you will not spool up as quickly becuase you have to spool to 10.5 psi rather than 8 wich isnt much but were talking 10th and hundreths of seconds in racing.
it comes down to tuning, properly tuning a higher compression motor will actually run better than a lower compression motor, you have more power in off-boost situations and with the higher compression your turbo will actually spool up quicker because of the force the exhaust is being released, now you may think that it would be more work tuning the higher compression motor, but in reality if your looking for the same amount of horsepower your going to have to increase the boost in the lower compression motor to make up for it, and in doing so the compression levels and detonation possiblity will be equal in both motors, so tuning is everything.
 

Rand0m

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STICKY THIS BIATCH!!!!!!!
 


iamgod

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Originally posted by eastcoastrsxs
ok, im bored and want to flex my brain, and this is a topic that many people do not agree on, some say that you cannot run turbo cars on a high compression motor, some say you can and it actually will run better, well heres my facts on the matter, lets say you have a stock b18c1 with 10:1 compression, now, atmospheric pressure is 14.7psi at sea level, so where gonna use that, so when your motor intakes a stroke of air and fuel an comresses it it has turned that 14.7 and multiplyed it by 10, to 147psi.
so that was an easy one, now, lets say you stick a turbo on that motor and run 8psi of boost, now at peak boost you will have the 14.7 plus the 8psi of boost, making 22.7 psi going into your motor on the intake stroke, now compress that by 10 and u have 227psi
ok, so now we change pistons and lower the compression to 9:1 we run the same boost of 8psi so we have the 22.7psi going in but only comressing it by 9 wich gives us 204.3psi, wich is less than with stock comression, wich means we will make less power, this is where the common missconception comes in that you can run more boost with a lower compression motor, well it is true, but your making more boost to compensate for the lack of compression that your motor has. you see, to get the same power out of the lower compression motor you would have to run 10.5psi(10.522 to be exact) of boost, add the 14.7 wich makes 25.22 and multiply that by 9 giving us the 227 wich is the same amount of compression at TDC as the stock compression motor.
now, running 10.5psi of boost to get the same power is going to have drawbacks you will not spool up as quickly becuase you have to spool to 10.5 psi rather than 8 wich isnt much but were talking 10th and hundreths of seconds in racing.
it comes down to tuning, properly tuning a higher compression motor will actually run better than a lower compression motor, you have more power in off-boost situations and with the higher compression your turbo will actually spool up quicker because of the force the exhaust is being released, now you may think that it would be more work tuning the higher compression motor, but in reality if your looking for the same amount of horsepower your going to have to increase the boost in the lower compression motor to make up for it, and in doing so the compression levels and detonation possiblity will be equal in both motors, so tuning is everything.
you are right BUT the size of the turbo does come into play, while 8psi is 8psi the different design of the turbo will have to be taken into consideration, also with a higher compression motor it is a better idea to run a smaller turbo then a larger one
 

eastcoastrsxs

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ok, to clarify, all other factors are the same on the motor except for the compression levels, lets say for debate. . .a greddy kit with an 18g turbo on both motors
 


iamgod

Banned
Originally posted by eastcoastrsxs
ok, to clarify, all other factors are the same on the motor except for the compression levels, lets say for debate. . .a greddy kit with an 18g turbo on both motors

then the higher compression motor wins as it will in most cases, but there are always variables, your location relavent to sea level has a lot to do with it too...........
 

eastcoastrsxs

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yes, but ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL (i think i said this before) wich would mean both motors at the same elevation. i am just trying to shake the rumor that high compression motors are no good for turbo applications
 

Rand0m

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Originally posted by eastcoastrsxs
i am just trying to shake the rumor that high compression motors are no good for turbo applications
which would be a MAJOR misconception around these parts
 

iamgod

Banned
Originally posted by eastcoastrsxs
yes, but ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL (i think i said this before) wich would mean both motors at the same elevation. i am just trying to shake the rumor that high compression motors are no good for turbo applications

i know man, i know, but trust me, there will ALWAYS be people who dont think it can be done............morons
 

Justyntyme

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too much f**king thinking for me!! lol more power too ya though for knowin your s**t
 

iamgod

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Originally posted by eastcoastrsxs
yup, just tryin to clarify the myth, and pass some time
word, this should be moved to the turbo forum and stickied....i will get that done for you
 

Sound Streamin'

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No one ever said you can't turbo a high compression motor(ok, Im sure someone has, but I never did at least :P). It's just one hell of a lot safer to lower the compression. Even with the best tuning, problems will still occur, and it's nice to have that little bit of breathing room.
 

iamgod

Banned
Originally posted by Sound Streamin'
No one ever said you can't turbo a high compression motor(ok, Im sure someone has, but I never did at least :P). It's just one hell of a lot safer to lower the compression. Even with the best tuning, problems will still occur, and it's nice to have that little bit of breathing room.
its not any safer, lower compression just allows people who dont know how to tune things properly make you think your s**t is runnin right
 

SeanMc300

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thank god, finally someone has said it!! im with ya brotha, ive always been a fan of turboing the b18c-r, but alot of people say its too high compression....im just glad that people are finally realizing this stuff. its all about the fuel
 

TurboZinc

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Your whole theory is based upon the assumption that as you compress the air fuel mixture, the pressure rises proportional to the decrease in volume.

Remember the ideal gas law?? PV=mRT

There is more than just pressure and volume there. Temperature changes must be taken into account as well (compressing air/fuel charge, air charge temp, etc)
 

iamgod

Banned
Originally posted by TurboZinc
Your whole theory is based upon the assumption that as you compress the air fuel mixture, the pressure rises proportional to the decrease in volume.

Remember the ideal gas law?? PV=mRT

There is more than just pressure and volume there. Temperature changes must be taken into account as well (compressing air/fuel charge, air charge temp, etc)

its PV=nRT
 


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