Cold Start Problem

[lo-n-slo]

I've spoken to moderator HeX and searched the forums about this one, still no luck.
I have a 97 EX (Y8) with 233,XXX miles. After checking battery, alternator, battery connection, I've replaced fuel filter, plugs, wires, distributor rotor button/cap...car still won't start when it's cold. If it's really cold, it tries to turn over, but won't. When it does start, it's really rough and then idles fine. When the weather is a little warmer it starts fine. I've added HEET to the gas, run it through, refilled...still no fix to what I suspected was water in the fuel.
Dropped it off at Honda yesterday for their $100 "we diagnose everything" check, and all they told me was everything I had already told them, except the car started every time they tried, and Check Engine Light was only due to Faulty O2 sensor. I told them to park it outside tonight and don't give it back until it doesn't start, to replicate the problem.

Any ideas? So far, my search has rendered results like possible faulty ECT, Ignition coil, fuel pump, and main relay. I do not have the tools to check these things. I can fix/replace things, but I'm not equipped nor do I know much about soldering, diagnosis/troubleshooting. What I don't want to do is spend thousands on a car that I only spend $1500 on.

 

[Diana Nam]

i would check your IACV those usually affects cold start

 

[Diana Nam]

at one point i had deleted my and without it would take my car 5mins of straight cranking til it started. then once it got started i had to keep giving it alittle gas for a bit to keep it idling

 

[XpL0d3r]

i would check your IACV those usually affects cold start

Agreed! Check / clean the IACV.

 

[Diana Nam]

yea thats was when i was dailying my race car had nothing in it no heat or anything lol

 

[XpL0d3r]

yea thats was when i was dailying my race car had nothing in it no heat or anything lol

Oh lol. I also was not paying attention and thought you were OP replying saying you removed IACV... my bad. I just ninja edited my last post

 

[Diana Nam]

thats when i had a all motor f23a eg coupe

 

[lo-n-slo]

i would check your IACV those usually affects cold start

I replaced that about 3 months ago. $200...down the drain

Replaced already

Agreed! Check / clean the IACV.

 

[Diana Nam]

it happens sometimes my has gone bad on me on few occations

also you can check the FITV which usually mounted to the bottom of the throttle body

 

[HeX]

Open up the ECM and look for any issues, maybe the Main relay as well. It wouldnt cost much to have someone solder one or two spots. It may just be the ignition coil in the distributor. You started throwing parts at the issues way too soon before seeking out opinions.

You may not want to hear this, but taking it to the dealer was a waste of $100. Never do that again for your own sake. Its rare that a dealership has skilled staff to actually diagnose an issue. All they usually do is work solely off codes or blindly swap related parts. In this case, Im confident they just scanned for codes and looked at the engine bay with little else.

 

[XpL0d3r]

also you can check the FITV which usually mounted to the bottom of the throttle body

96's and newer do not have a FITV

 

[lo-n-slo]

Open up the ECM and look for any issues, maybe the Main relay as well. It wouldnt cost much to have someone solder one or two spots. It may just be the ignition coil in the distributor. You started throwing parts at the issues way too soon before seeking out opinions.

You may not want to hear this, but taking it to the dealer was a waste of $100. Never do that again for your own sake. Its rare that a dealership has skilled staff to actually diagnose an issue. All they usually do is work solely off codes or blindly swap related parts. In this case, Im confident they just scanned for codes and looked at the engine bay with little else.

I did it reluctantly, but since I was tired of getting rides to work, only to start the car up fine when I got home, I figured I may as well have a Honda technician look at it. I won't be doing it again, for the reasons you mentioned. I threw parts at it because of reason's previously suggested, starting with inexpensive things first (except the IACV) At the time there was a IACV code, which I no longer have. An ignition coil from Autozone is $65. Honestly if I was staring at an ECM I wouldn't know what I was looking at. Honda quoted me $400 for the Bank 1 O2 sensor, which seems insane.

 

[HeX]

An ignition coil from Autozone is $65.

Is that their cheapest or higher level brand? Never do their cheapest brands for electrical components at any autoparts store. I would check for other brands online.

Honestly if I was staring at an ECM I wouldn't know what I was looking at.

Oh, you'll know when you see a burnt spot or a broken connection. Its pretty obvious.

Honda quoted me $400 for the Bank 1 O2 sensor, which seems insane.

Hondas O2 sensor is made by NTK (which is NGK). You can order that online yourself for less than $100. Get the part number off NTKs website.

 

[lo-n-slo]

Is that their cheapest or higher level brand? Never do their cheapest brands for electrical components at any autoparts store. I would check for other brands online.


Oh, you'll know when you see a burnt spot or a broken connection. Its pretty obvious.


Hondas O2 sensor is made by NTK (which is NGK). You can order that online yourself for less than $100. Get the part number off NTKs website.

Thank you.

 

[Diana Nam]

96's and newer do not have a FITV

i guess then again i never had one on any of my motors regardless of obd1 or 2 lol

 

[lo-n-slo]

So if I'm shopping around for an ignition coil, what brand should I purchase? As a matter of fact, is there a reference that lists all Honda brands? The one I looked at for $65 was a Duralast replacement. A Hitachi is $94.99 I don't know what the Honda brand is. I'll pull the ECM and see what I can find. I hope that's the problem and I can stop guessing.

 

[Diana Nam]

So if I'm shopping around for an ignition coil, what brand should I purchase? As a matter of fact, is there a reference that lists all Honda brands? The one I looked at for $65 was a Duralast replacement. A Hitachi is $94.99 I don't know what the Honda brand is. I'll pull the ECM and see what I can find. I hope that's the problem and I can stop guessing.

to be honest i highly doubt its any of that your replacing right now if there was a problem like that with any of those parts it won't function regardless of weather temperature. Being that you already replaced those parts already and your still having same problem and honda couldn't get your car to replicate that problem its 99% chance that thats not where your problem is and its else where.

 

[dancam]

When your car is running does the idle drop noticeably when you press the brakes or turn your lights from off to high beams? I think its more noticeable when the engine is hot, but it may do it cold as well. What if you turn all loads on: high beams, wipers, rear defroster, a/c with fans on high, brakes, stereo? What happens to the idle?
Try that. If your idle drops from loads the problem may be your iacv not receiving proper signal from the ecu. That may be from your ecu having a burnt spot or not recieving the proper signal from those components.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Diana Nam]

When your car is running does the idle drop noticeably when you press the brakes or turn your lights from off to high beams? I think its more noticeable when the engine is hot, but it may do it cold as well. What if you turn all loads on: high beams, wipers, rear defroster, a/c with fans on high, brakes, stereo? What happens to the idle?
Try that. If your idle drops from loads the problem may be your iacv not receiving proper signal from the ecu. That may be from your ecu having a burnt spot or not recieving the proper signal from those components.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

happens a lot on these cars.

 

[lo-n-slo]

When your car is running does the idle drop noticeably when you press the brakes or turn your lights from off to high beams? I think its more noticeable when the engine is hot, but it may do it cold as well. What if you turn all loads on: high beams, wipers, rear defroster, a/c with fans on high, brakes, stereo? What happens to the idle?
Try that. If your idle drops from loads the problem may be your iacv not receiving proper signal from the ecu. That may be from your ecu having a burnt spot or not recieving the proper signal from those components.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, I do not have any of these symptoms. I've never had an idle problem. The only reason I replaced the IACV is because it had a code for it and I wanted to remove the CEL. (which didn't remove it at all) Once the car starts, it runs fine. There's a bit of a tick in the engine, but for the miles I suspect that's normal valve chatter. But no load issues. The only real problem I'm having is the car not starting when cold. After thinking about it, the only time I've had a similar issue is when the gas needle gets to about 1/8 to empty, it will take a second to start, so I keep the tank above 1/4 tank now.