dont sleeve if you want 400 whp. 550 or so is the limit on stock sleeves, and honestly, you'd need to sleeve just because you need more displacment to really make more power. spend your money on good rods, good pistons, and a good engine builder and machine shop. i reccomend crower rods and endyn/wiseco pistons, with honda oem bearings, seals, and gaskets, a .5mm overbore, along with some decent head work.
Cost of building internals...
- Thread starter T!mmy
- Start date
thanks man, that was the kind of info I was trying to get into...handlebarsfsr said:
here's some other stuff though as well...
-Although, what about an aftermarket crank?
-Also, on the head work, what is the recommended brand? I know crower, s2, omni, bc, etc all make head components.
-Is a pnp a good idea for this amount of power?
-Even though you are saying it's safe to run up to around 550 whp, does that mean that it will be strong enough and reliable enough (granted a good build and tune has been done) that I wont have to worry over a period of time, let's say over a year or two.
-What about the c/r? and how do you figure what you want?
-What about injectors, how is the best size for your given hp determined?
-Anything need to be touched with the IM?
-New fuel pump, fuel rail, of course too I guess.
-I'm sure there is plenty of other things...
I know this is a lot, but these are things I'm curious about/need to know to do what I want. And IF I'm talking about doing more than what is needed, let me know. The thing is I just dont want to ease by and then have an engine that isnt as reliable as I'd like it. I want to feel confident and know that my engine can handle the power I want to put to it which is around 400 whp.
As far as the loan...I dont really think it's going to be as big of a deal because what I am going to do is work 2 jobs this summer. 8 to 5 at my parent's biz and then like 6 to close somewhere else. Then at the end of summer, get a loan and put what I haved saved towards that which should pay off the majority of the loan to begin with. Or pay for what I can and then get a loan for what else is needed. You get the idea.
This WILL get done and it should be before the end of this year by far. Just some things I need to figure out.
Thanks for all the help so far
-Although, what about an aftermarket crank? not needed, the stocker is more than fine.
-Also, on the head work, what is the recommended brand? I know crower, s2, omni, bc, etc all make head components. it depends which motor you're using. if you have a sohc, then id go with crower or crane cams and the required valve springs/retainers. a good port job is also a very good idea, as the sohc heads dont flow that well.
-Is a pnp a good idea for this amount of power? yes
-Even though you are saying it's safe to run up to around 550 whp, does that mean that it will be strong enough and reliable enough (granted a good build and tune has been done) that I wont have to worry over a period of time, let's say over a year or two. i hate to break it to you, but if you think ANY 400 whp honda is going to be reliable, not matter how well built, your only fooling yourself. have you ever driven a 400 whp honda? hell, have you driven a 200 whp honda? i was making 210 whp and i must say, 210 whp is pretty god damned fast for a street car. you will not be able to put down 400 whp to the pavement on any sort of street tire. nor will you be able to run 400 whp every day, you'll need to run more like 200-250 daily and then run 400 at the track. making 400 whp on pump gas on a d16 will be nearly impossible unless you have someone like jeff evans do your tune. even then, thats still pushing it.
-What about the c/r? and how do you figure what you want? 9:1. its proven to be about the best.
-What about injectors, how is the best size for your given hp determined? 750's or so should get you to 450 whp or so
-Anything need to be touched with the IM? yes, a very short, fat runner manifold is pretty mandatory
-New fuel pump, fuel rail, of course too I guess. yes, walbro 255 is mandatory and an aftermarket rail are a good idea.
-I'm sure there is plenty of other things...
yes there are. you need to do a lot more research. you've budgeted 2000 bucks, you're gonna need at least twice that. you will need to build your tranny, at the very least you need a good lsd, which is around 1000 bucks, and a very strong clutch, something rated to around 400 ft/lbs of torque or more. your best option would be a tiliton or exedy twin disk, but those go for 1600 bucks. 400 whp is too much power for the street, and i dont think you realize just what 400 whp is. my guess is you havent driven any really fast, really well built hondas, because you seem to think that a huge hp number is all that matters. its not.
-Also, on the head work, what is the recommended brand? I know crower, s2, omni, bc, etc all make head components. it depends which motor you're using. if you have a sohc, then id go with crower or crane cams and the required valve springs/retainers. a good port job is also a very good idea, as the sohc heads dont flow that well.
-Is a pnp a good idea for this amount of power? yes
-Even though you are saying it's safe to run up to around 550 whp, does that mean that it will be strong enough and reliable enough (granted a good build and tune has been done) that I wont have to worry over a period of time, let's say over a year or two. i hate to break it to you, but if you think ANY 400 whp honda is going to be reliable, not matter how well built, your only fooling yourself. have you ever driven a 400 whp honda? hell, have you driven a 200 whp honda? i was making 210 whp and i must say, 210 whp is pretty god damned fast for a street car. you will not be able to put down 400 whp to the pavement on any sort of street tire. nor will you be able to run 400 whp every day, you'll need to run more like 200-250 daily and then run 400 at the track. making 400 whp on pump gas on a d16 will be nearly impossible unless you have someone like jeff evans do your tune. even then, thats still pushing it.
-What about the c/r? and how do you figure what you want? 9:1. its proven to be about the best.
-What about injectors, how is the best size for your given hp determined? 750's or so should get you to 450 whp or so
-Anything need to be touched with the IM? yes, a very short, fat runner manifold is pretty mandatory
-New fuel pump, fuel rail, of course too I guess. yes, walbro 255 is mandatory and an aftermarket rail are a good idea.
-I'm sure there is plenty of other things...
yes there are. you need to do a lot more research. you've budgeted 2000 bucks, you're gonna need at least twice that. you will need to build your tranny, at the very least you need a good lsd, which is around 1000 bucks, and a very strong clutch, something rated to around 400 ft/lbs of torque or more. your best option would be a tiliton or exedy twin disk, but those go for 1600 bucks. 400 whp is too much power for the street, and i dont think you realize just what 400 whp is. my guess is you havent driven any really fast, really well built hondas, because you seem to think that a huge hp number is all that matters. its not.
it's not the number I want to easily break 10/11s...handlebarsfsr said:
Thanks for all the info, and I dont know where the 2000 budget came in but...lol that's not the limit.
Sorry for not saying yet but this will be on a b16 which will be in a very full interior crx...very full.
Your guess is correct I have never driven anything turbo'd for that matter to be honest with you. I'm not trying to bullshit and make it sound like I know more than I do, otherwise I wouldn't be here asking questions.
I just realized though that I think I'm getting away from my original thoughts or w/e.
My main goal is to go ahead and build just the bottom end so that it wont have to be removed and s**t later. What I mean is, yeah I might not be pushing the bottom end near what it could with my first initial setup after turbo, but when I get ready to upgrade, internals wont be an issue. And maybe this isnt quite feasible...
Let me know what you think, and handlebarsfsr, your help is appreciated much more than you know, thanks for taking the time and going into detail with me
if you want a 10 second car, you'll need to pour more money into the chassis. NO drag strip will let you run 10's without a 9 second certification, which is a full cage, full fire suit, kill switches, fire supression systems, etc. dont use a b16, get a 1.8 block. when you want to make max hp, displacment is very key. if your using the b16 head, then headwork isnt really necessary, a set of itr cams, a nice intake manifold, and you should be set. even with 400+ whp, the full interior is going to kill you. and honestly, you wont be able to use the interior with a proper roll cage. and finally, YOUR driving skill is the only thing thats gonna let you run that fast. and if you've never driven a turbo honda, it will be a very long time before you run a 10 no matter how much $$ and time you put into your car. i hate to say this, but i think you are way overshooting reality here. a 10 second car will cost a hell of a lot closer to 20,000 than 2,000 when all is said and done, and be nearly unuseable on the street. if you want a 10 second car that you can somewhat daily drive, you need something driving the other wheels and with a few more cylinders- a rwd v8.T!mmy said:it's not the number I want to easily break 10/11s...
Thanks for all the info, and I dont know where the 2000 budget came in but...lol that's not the limit.
Sorry for not saying yet but this will be on a b16 which will be in a very full interior crx...very full.
Your guess is correct I have never driven anything turbo'd for that matter to be honest with you. I'm not trying to bullshit and make it sound like I know more than I do, otherwise I wouldn't be here asking questions.
I just realized though that I think I'm getting away from my original thoughts or w/e.
My main goal is to go ahead and build just the bottom end so that it wont have to be removed and s**t later. What I mean is, yeah I might not be pushing the bottom end near what it could with my first initial setup after turbo, but when I get ready to upgrade, internals wont be an issue. And maybe this isnt quite feasible...
Let me know what you think, and handlebarsfsr, your help is appreciated much more than you know, thanks for taking the time and going into detail with me
alright...point well taken.handlebarsfsr said:
So what it is basically coming down to is piston, rods, (couldn't I just bore the b16 to a 1.8?), new cams, new IM, fuel rail, injectors, fuel pump, and getting s**t balanced, pnp (what all would be a good idea to get done as far as pnp)?
If you dont mind, what do they do to balance it? I have heard of this but never actually heard the method or w/e...
I see what you are saying as far as the 400 whp being retarded for a daily driver in the honda world. But what would stop me from running two diff setups so that it is 250 or w/e for daily and then the other for racing? Does that create any limitations when trying to switch between that far of a range? 400 whp might be much more than I need/want, but if the engine could handle it, and I had the ability to switch back and forth, might as well give it a go every now and then right?
And yeah, driving might be a problem but hell you have to start somewhere.Thanks,
T!mmy
no, you cant bore a 1.6 to a 1.8 unless you sleeved, and even then, you'd need to run like an 87mm bore to do that. just get an ls block and build that instead. theres nothing stopping you from running 400 whp, but again, why? if you can run 250 on a totally stock b16, hell you can run 300 on a totally stock b16, why blow several grand unless you are actually building a car capable of using all that power? you sound like you just want 400 whp just to have 400 whp, not because you are in some sort of competitive arena that requires it. balancing a motor is done by dynamic and static balancing, dynamic is for rotating parts, they spin them very fast on a special machine, and test for any inconsistincies in the counterweights of the crank and such, and fix any imbalances. rods and pistons are balanced and weighed statically on a scale to ensure they are all the same weight and the weight is evenly distributed.
see I get what you are saying but I guess the thing is this...and this might end all of my questions as far as building it.handlebarsfsr said:
I know psi numbers are irrelevant because of diff setups and all but the "recommended" psi for daily driving on a standard setup is 8. I want to be able to turn it up past that, maybe even more than that daily, without a concern for my engine. If the stock internals can do that, cool. But I dont want to worry about my engine f**king up because I'm running 12 lbs on a stock block daily. I know that when you turbo an engine or w/e, or making more power, you will always have concerns for the engine, but I dont want to be doing something that is not recommended. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. It's not a matter of me wanting to say oh look at my 400 whp crx because in the end, 1/4 mile time matters to me. My first and main concern is reliability. I want to be able to safely be within the engine's limitations and not worry about messing something up because I'm not sure if my engine can handle that amount.
what you want is a good tuner. reliability is above all else, based on how well the car is tuned. 300 whp is more power than you can reasonably put down through street tires. there really isnt any need to go higher than that unless you will spend time with slicks, on a drag strip, or you street race on the highways aboe 80 mph. my advice is to boost the car and get it tuned with a stock motor. with a well built kit, a well tuned motor, and a good driver, your car will be very, very fast with a completely stock motor. if and when you feel you need more power, THEN think about a build to fix whaterver it is that you dont like about your current setup. since you have no experience with boosted hondas now, get some on low boost first, instead of trying to dive head first into an extremely expensive build that mya not be what you really need or what you want.T!mmy said: