Hard starting problem when cold

[blackdemon88]

Hi guys. I was hoping someone could help me with a slight problem with my 1989 civic DX hatchback. When my car sits for 2 or more hours it is hard to start-meaning I have to crank for a good 12 seconds to get it to start. I have tried to "prime" it before I start it but it will not work unless I am actually engaging the starter. I can get it to start easier if I just "tap" the starter and turn the key off then turn the key back to crank and it will usually start up after 2 or 3 seconds. I have replaced a lot of things on my car-mostly because it needed it-such as plugs, wires, cap, rotor, fuel filter, fuel pressure regulator, distributor(used from salvage yard) and I can not figure out what is causing the problem. The crazy thing about this is if I unplug the battery for let's say ten minutes and plug it back in the car will start right up like it should!! After that when I get done driving it around and it sits for about 2 to 3 hours it goes right back to taking 12 seconds to start. But again if I unplug the battery for a bit and plug it back in it will start right up with no problem. I am thinking it could be something going bad in the ecu but I'm not throwing codes at all. I did check the fuel pressure and it reads about 40 at the turn of the key and the pressure goes down to about 20 when it sits for awhile. I am thinking that it is NOT the fuel pump if it will start right away when I unplug the battery for 10 min. I apologize for the long post but I wanted to be sure I included everything. Any help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!! Thank you.

 

[RonJ]

I will get back to this thread later.

 

[blackdemon88]

okay no problem thankyou!

 

[itsmycookie]

if you disconnect the battery then reconnect it right away what happens

also is the battery good? how old is it?

 

[blackdemon88]

The battery is brand new and if I unplug it for about 10 min. it will start right up. I've never really unplugged it and plugged it in right away then tried starting it. Will that make a difference?

 

[itsmycookie]

The battery is brand new and if I unplug it for about 10 min. it will start right up. I've never really unplugged it and plugged it in right away then tried starting it. Will that make a difference?

i don't know i'm just wondering why the 10 minutes would do anything.

in your first post i'm kind oif confused. you said the car starts after 12 seconds of cranking. so the car does start eventually right? or if you just barely start it then start it it starts up after 3 seconds.

so your problem is that the car doesn't start instantly when it's cold outside?

when it was warmer did it start right away?

 

[blackdemon88]

Yeah, the car does start if i just tap the starter to where it engages and then I turn the key off. After that I will go and crank it again and I won't have to engage the starter as long as I would have to If I didn't "tap" it in the first place. It doesn't matter if it's 90 degrees or if it is 9 degrees out I still have to start it the same way. Even though it does always start eventually I don't know why unplugging the battery makes a difference. I did find an article about how some fuel pumps in the Honda's (very rare) had problems with the fuel pumps not being able to hold the pressure in the lines which would cause "bleed back " into the tank. But that doesn't really explain why when I unplug my battery and plug it in again that it will start right up.I think you can understand why my head keeps hitting the wall on this problem because it just doesn't make any sense! Thank you for your help so far itsmycookie. I appreciate it very much!!

 

[RonJ]

Are you tapping the starter because otherwise it won't crank the engine? In other words, is there a cranking problem?

When the engine cranks but won't start, if you turn the key to ON(II), does the CEL turn on and then off after 2 seconds or does it stay on steady?

 

[itsmycookie]

when you first turn the car 'on' but don't engage the starter can you hear the fuel pump running for a few seconds?

 

[blackdemon88]

The reason I tap the starter is so that I don't burn up another starter but yes it always cranks. I just put in a brand new starter last week Alot of times I'll wait for the CEL to go off before I crank but yes the CEL goes on for 2 seconds and shuts off. Also I can hear the pump go on when I turn the key. I hear it for about 2 or 3 seconds but that is it. I have tried to prime it but I could turn the key on and off till I'm blue in the face and it won't start any easier.

 

[RonJ]

The reason I tap the starter is so that I don't burn up another starter but yes it always cranks. I just put in a brand new starter last week

I don't understand. How would tapping the starter prevent it from burning up? Why would it burn up? And what do you mean by "tap"?

Alot of times I'll wait for the CEL to go off before I crank but yes the CEL goes on for 2 seconds and shuts off. Also I can hear the pump go on when I turn the key. I hear it for about 2 or 3 seconds but that is it. I have tried to prime it but I could turn the key on and off till I'm blue in the face and it won't start any easier.

Does the CEL turn on and then turn off and does the fuel pump prime even when the engine will not start? If so, check all 4 spark plugs for bright white spark. Click the spark link in my signature.

Keep in mind that diagnostic tests only yield useful information when the engine will NOT start.

 

[Kenneth]

Just a shot in the dark if I may. What about pulling the fuse to the ecu, for a couple minutes, instead of disconnecting the battery. If that reliably starts the car immediately, wouldn't that more accurately point towards the ecu as the problem?

 

[blackdemon88]

RonJ I guess I shouldn't of worded it quite like that.I apologize. I'm not burning up starters but I am worried about maybe burning up my starter if I have to constantly crank on it every time I let it sit. A friend of mine told me to try engaging the starter for a second or two(that is what I mean by "tapping" it) and then turn the key off. After that he said to try and start it again right away. When I do that it usually starts right up within 3 to 4 seconds I will check the spark because yes the fuel pump does prime and the CEL does go on and then off in like 2 seconds.

Thanks for the input Kenneth,I will try that later today(Tuesday) and let you know if your suggestion made a difference

 

[blackdemon88]

Well first I took the fuse out for the ECU ,and plugged it back in but it still took awhile for it to start. Thanks for the tip though Kenneth.

Then I went and checked the spark like RonJ had in his signature. I know this is going to sound crazy but at first I had no spark and then it seemed to get spark the longer I engaged the starter! I know this probably don't make any sense but I tried it on two separate occasions. Where do I go from here? Am I looking at maybe checking the Primary and secondary on the coil or am I looking at something else. Thanks again for your help guys.

 

[Kenneth]

I'm not a mechanic, maybe someone else can tell you more. But I'd take the icm to autozone or someplace, to be checked. If that's not it test the coil. But it seems like the coil is working.

 

[RonJ]

When there was spark, what color was it?

Ohm test the coil and take the igniter unit to AutoZone, as Kenneth said.

 

[blackdemon88]

Wow thanks alot for the diagrams RonJ that will really help out! The color of the spark was more like blue than white

 

[blackdemon88]

I've been pretty busy with work so I haven't got to testing the coil but I'll be doing that tonight after work. Since it is in the 40's where I live should I be taking the coil out of the distributor and testing it inside? The Auto Zone in Wisconsin here says they don't test ignitors-heck I had to explain to them what it was. Any other place that I can go to have it tested? Or is there any info out there where I can test it myself?

 

[Kenneth]

If you have to explain .... Meanwhile, I'd check another autozone, advance auto supply, or the like. Some people refer to this part as an igniter, some people call it an icm, or ignition control module. It's possible he knows it by one of the other names. Sometimes the people behind the counter don't know as much as we hope. They DO test these things at most of those types of auto supply places. Find a different autozone. Might even think about a second, or even third opinion. Depending on the results you get. I've never owned a car that had one. Mine always had points. Or a distributor -less system. So because of the nature of the problem. I'd probly go with a new one. Assuming they're not too pricey.

 

[RonJ]

Yes, try another AutoZone and also Ohm test the coil. Blue spark is weak spark. Weak spark is generally caused by a bad coil, but not always, so test it.