How much should I ask to get back on this overcharge by an auto shop by mistake?

[Civic2006]

I recently replaced the muffler of my 2006 Civic LX at an auto shop. I found it was overcharged by a lot after doing research on the invoice and complained. The owner sincerely apologized, said it was done by a newbie and promised to make it right.

Below is the invoice of the repair.
Diagnose, remove and replace muffler, gasket amd spring bolt kit - $155.18 (1.5HR 103.45 per hour)
Exhaust Sprint Bolt Kit PN#31360 - $24.45
Exhaust Gasket PN#31360 - $31.56 (2 count - 15.78 each)
Quiet Flow Muffler PN#54668 - $294.78
Shop supplies - $45.54
Tax - $23.90
TOTAL - $575.41

He offered to refund me by about ~$180 total for overcharging the above 3 items in red. The main thing we cannot agreed on is how much refund I should get back for the muffler which cost about $100 on the internet. He said it cost him $115 and most auto shops usually double that price to the customer (they usually do it with exhaust parts). Which means $230 is the fair price that I would have to pay even if I go to other shops.

While I understand most shops usually put a markup on the part price but I'm having a tough time believing that I would have to pay double - $230 for $115 part at other shops. He does not have to refund me and he's been very nice about it so I don't want to ask for more than what I should get back. Any idea how much it typically go for at other shops and what I should ask back?

Thanks in advance.

 

[xxBLOOD88SHOTxx]

Bullshit, you got screwed for that muffler. Could of bought it at autozone and paid an exhaust shop 50 bucks to weld it on. Whole thing should of taken 30 mins.

 

[HeX]

Dude, they royally screwed you. Google your part numbers like I did. That Wagner muffler doesnt cost more than $100 even at AutoZone, which will be more than any muffler shop will get it for. The labor takes 10 minutes or less if all goes smooth and 15-30 minutes if welding, cutting and/or bending is needed. A spring bolt kit costs about $15 retail. An exhaust gasket costs $5-$10 not $16 each. Also, $104 an hour for labor at a muffler shop sounds high. I'd look up or call other muffler shops to ask their hourly rates, perhaps even ask for estimates as if you want them to do it (dont mention your shop issue). Get at least 3 estimates and get an average to rebuttal with this shiesty shop. I cant even imagine what shop supplies could possible cost $45 because they dont use anything but the torch or welder, which most shops chalk up to the hourly charge. Also, jack up the car and inspect the muffler to see if the spring bolts were in fact replaced or if they just cut past the flange and welded on the new muffler. So lets review.

Job Labor - $155.18 (1.5HR 103.45 per hour) Realistic amount $85 or less (20 min. rounded up to 1 hour)
Exhaust Spring Bolt Kit (PN#31360) - $24.45 Realistic amount $15
Exhaust Gaskets (PN#31360) - $31.56 (2 count - 15.78 each) Realistic amount $16 ($8 max a piece)
Quiet Flow Muffler (PN#54668) - $294.78 Realistic amount $100
Shop supplies - $45.54 Realistic amount $0 (what supplies?!?)
Tax - $23.90 Recalculated Tax: $9.37
TOTAL - $575.41 Recalculated Total = $225.37
Approximate amount they overcharge you = $350.04

At this point, you may be lucky to get $250 back and this will be one helluva learning lesson for you. But as I eluded to earlier, go back well prepared with estimate comparisons of each charge and a solid average refund number. Not just Amazon or eBay prices but legitimate local auto part and shop resources so they simply cannot logically argue your numbers without blatantly lying.

I say this because if you dont get a refund of at least $300 then you should report them to the Better Business Bureau and slam them at every single online review source available. If they're a chain muffler shop, then contact the local regional manager and file your complaint for the remaining amount you feel you deserve.

 

[lethal6]

I get being angry at finding out you overpaid, but you should have shopped around. Shops can charge what ever the hell they want and can also refuse anything they want.

Lesson learned. They are within their right (by you signing and paying, you agreed to their terms) to not give you any kind of refund.

You lost all legal ground to fight once you signed and exchanged money. Ask me how I know. [emoji38]

 

[HeX]

I get being angry at finding out you overpaid, but you should have shopped around. Shops can charge what ever the hell they want and can also refuse anything they want.

Lesson learned. They are within their right (by you signing and paying, you agreed to their terms) to not give you any kind of refund.

You lost all legal ground to fight once you signed and exchanged money. Ask me how I know. [emoji38]

He's right. However, most even mildly reputable businesses dont want to risk a bad reputation and will work towards making you feel vindicated by thecservice you receive in a situation like that. Word of mouth is a powerful marketting tool that this manager seems to understand to some extent. If he holds true, stick to my suggestions reasonably calmly and you should have a relatively respectful conclusion. But Lethal6 is right in that you should always ask for an estimate first, especially when you're not familiar with such services.

 

[XpL0d3r]

Continue to be kind to the owner, but be very adamant in telling him you will give the shop negative reviews due to being overcharged. Let him know you will never recommend anyone to his shop, and if anything, will recommend people stay away and to go elsewhere. An owner who truly cares about his company will care about reviews, and will do what he can to make it right.

I'd think the owner would rather lose $100 over a muffler than lose even a single customer.

And WOW that is high labor rate...

 

[Esotericimage]

Thats dealership rates!!

 

[HeX]

Continue to be kind to the owner, but be very adamant in telling him you will give the shop negative reviews due to being overcharged. Let him know you will never recommend anyone to his shop, and if anything, will recommend people stay away and to go elsewhere. An owner who truly cares about his company will care about reviews, and will do what he can to make it right.

I'd think the owner would rather lose $100 over a muffler than lose even a single customer.

And WOW that is high labor rate...

I wouldnt use that tactic just because if hes been nice so far then he may take that as a threat. Choose your words wisely and simply state that such an experience is not something positive to share with others when they ask about what you had done. Stick to the factual numbers that speak for themselves. If he flips on you after giving you an insufficient refund, then maybe walk out stating youre going to report this everywhere how you were taken advantage of for not knowing any better at first. Thatll save you sone pride and maybe, just maybe, get him to reevaluate how hes running his business.

 

[pmac193]

Take what you can get back, everyone has been burned at one point or another. Use it as a learning experience.

 

[XpL0d3r]

OP you didn't go to F&R Auto Sales by any chance did you? I don't think they fix cars, they're just a super shady auto sales place in MA.

I wouldnt use that tactic just because if hes been nice so far tgen he may take that as a threat. Choose your words wisely and simply state that such an experience is not something positive to share with others when they ask about what you had done. Stick to the factual numbers that speak for themselves. If he flips on you after giving you an insufficient refund, then maybe walk out stating youre going to report this everywhere how you were taken advantage of for not knowing any better at first. Thatll save you sone pride and maybe, just maybe, get him to reevaluate how hes running his business.

Right, only spread negative reviews if they truly are being a PITA and will not budge at all. At that point, they're truly being negative so the reviews are well-deserved. At lease the owner in OPs case seems nice, but in all reality is still doing his sales job. He's going to overcharge you to make money, and when you call him out, he's going to still try to overcharge you, just not as much. Saying "I'll knock $100 off the price" sounds real good, but if you're being overcharged $150, he's still got you by the balls and he knows it.

Based on personal experience when I had warranty issues with my g35, I was successful with this. Basically they wouldn't cover my tranny issue because the tires were bald (they cited neglect). After speaking with them multiple times and getting nowhere, I started posting everywhere online to not use that warranty company, they were shady, etc. After a couple weeks hounding their FB page, they "reassessed" my car and fixed it under warranty as long as I agreed to take down my negative posts about the company. I did so and all was well.

 

[HeX]

Understandable profit margins are one thing, but the numbers I calculated for him are all within retail costs that have built in profit for them. As simple as muffler work is, its hard to believe some of their charges unless they had a difficult issue to work around, in which case they should've explained that at the time of payment to justify the huge cost as all reputable businesses will do. Unless Civic2006 forgot to mention such a fact, $575 is far to much for any basic muffler replacement not including a better quality muffler. $250 is the max I would ever expect in such a circumstance..

 

[xxBLOOD88SHOTxx]

Hell even autoMD quotes are approx. 275 dollars cheaper on the high end. I used Boston as a reference because I don't know where in MA you are.

 

[lethal6]

Understandable profit margins are one thing, but the numbers I calculated for him are all within retail costs that have built in profit for them. As simple as muffler work is, its hard to believe some of their charges unless they had a difficult issue to work around, in which case they should've explained that at the time of payment to justify the huge cost as all reputable businesses will do. Unless Civic2006 forgot to mention such a fact, $575 is far to much for any basic muffler replacement not including a better quality muffler. $250 is the max I would ever expect in such a circumstance..

*edit: read wrong* He was charged 255% mark up, that is definitely wrong on the math and is what any reasonable shop would refund against, the rest of the stuff no chance in hell. If it were here we would refund around $100-115 probably. Our profit margin is around 60% for customer pay. */edit*

Also, most shops do a minimum of an hour on the labor rate and you can't just make up your own shop rates... Hex, all your prices are comically man, sorry. What you think stuff should cost and what it actually does in a shop setting are 2 totally different things. Have you ever been around the financial side of an automotive repair shop? One thing you are never going to win when fighting a shop is what they charge per hour. They pick that, not the customer and no they aren't going to care if you come to them with another shop's labor rate, unless they specifically state that they match competitors. All shops will also charge you shop supplies/disposal fees. This pays for the scrapping and stuff like welding supplies, nuts, bolts, clean up, car washing crap (if the shop does that most don't), etc. s**t isn't free. And no, it isn't within the shop labor rate.

Again, this is why you shop around before hand. Find the price that works for you that keeps it in the good cost to quality work ratio. Don't expect to get good work paying for cheap, but you don't have to pay out the ass either.

Reviews depend on the company. They hammer to us about good reviews, but this auto group as a whole has a terrible name in the industry and we still pull in half a million a month during the busy months just in the 2 shops. Not that it definitely couldn't be better with a bigger following, but like I said it all depends. We are also on the high end of the industry with only 4 dealers in the whole state with the closest one being an hour away in a busy ass city that everyone seems to hate. On that note, the point is probably moot compared to a small muffler shop.

All that being said, I would take what you can get and run because they definitely don't have to give you anything by law. We get a ton of people here that try to dispute the charges after the fact and not one of them has won in court. Legal contract and all that. Now, if you were to fight it before you signed and paid, that would be totally different.

 

[Civic2006]

Thanks for the replies guys. It was certainly my fault for not checking around first. My car hardly had any issue despite being nearly 10 years old so I don't have much experience. Oh well, lesson learned I guess...

After going back and forth, the shop owner had agreed to refund me $240 plus free Oil & Filter change. I talked to my coworker about the markup and his mechanic usually charge about 50% markup so I told him about it and we settled on ~ $170 for the muffler which is 50% markup. So the final cost came up to be about ~$335 for the entire thing.

I left a pretty detailed and negative but decently worded review on the shop as soon as I found out about the overcharge and I think it certainly helped me a lot. I intent to update it to higher rating once I get the $240 since the owner has been nothing but nice to me since the beginning and based on the comments here I got back more than expected?

@XpL0d3r
It's not F&R Auto but thanks for the info. I'll stay away from it in the future .

 

[lethal6]

Glad you got it resolved. Definitely go back and update that review, it would be a d**k move not too considering. People that stumble on that review in the future NEED to know that this place takes responsibility for their mistakes.

 

[HeX]

Also, most shops do a minimum of an hour on the labor rate and you can't just make up your own shop rates... Hex, all your prices are comically man, sorry. What you think stuff should cost and what it actually does in a shop setting are 2 totally different things. Have you ever been around the financial side of an automotive repair shop? One thing you are never going to win when fighting a shop is what they charge per hour. They pick that, not the customer and no they aren't going to care if you come to them with another shop's labor rate, unless they specifically state that they match competitors. All shops will also charge you shop supplies/disposal fees. This pays for the scrapping and stuff like welding supplies, nuts, bolts, clean up, car washing crap (if the shop does that most don't), etc. s**t isn't free. And no, it isn't within the shop labor rate.

Lethal6, I have been around shop financials thanks to a close friend who owns a shop. I've seen his customer numbers and I'm also very familiar with a standard muffler shops costs and charges, which is why I wrote estimated number and stated they were a rough approximation. Keep in mind that hourly shop rates will vary by region, as will business practices and estimate details. This is also why I recommended him to get other local estimates. Perhaps you missed the multiple times I used non-specific references and gave him suggestions to figure out his regions average. As for supplies, they are usually stated clearly on legit estimates, which OP didnt state. I solely went off his information. I tried my best to give him the tools to best resolve his issue.

After going back and forth, the shop owner had agreed to refund me $240 plus free Oil & Filter change. I talked to my coworker about the markup and his mechanic usually charge about 50% markup so I told him about it and we settled on ~ $170 for the muffler which is 50% markup. So the final cost came up to be about ~$335 for the entire thing.

I left a pretty detailed and negative but decently worded review on the shop as soon as I found out about the overcharge and I think it certainly helped me a lot. I intent to update it to higher rating once I get the $240 since the owner has been nothing but nice to me since the beginning and based on the comments here I got back more than expected.

Congrats on reaching a resolution your content with in a respectable manner.

 

[XpL0d3r]

Glad everything has been resolved!