Tips for the gun range?

[vjf915]

To be honest, I would only rent a gun to try it out before purchase... I wouldn't make it a common practice to rent with something you don't own. Range time is to be proficient with the weapon you own.

But to more specifically answer your question, yes, you can go to a rental range that will rent firearms for about $30 each and then range time + ammo.

To put it in perspective, the FN I just bought was $625 and it's considered middle of the pack ( mix a glock 17($500 gun) and a sig saur p226 (~$700 gun)

I completely agree with this as well. Although you CAN go to a range on a regular basis and rent firearms, I would also only recommend it to try a firearm out before purchasing. It's quite cost prohibitive to rent on a consistent basis. You have to pay for the rental, pay for range time, and pay for ammo. This adds up quite a bit, as they charge quite a bit for ammo. Go once and you'll see what we mean.

I do have to disagree with his statement about FN though, I feel he's being too modest. Although FN makes pistols that are priced in the middle of the pack, they make a fantastic firearm that you can expect to have a great fit and finish, and to perform whenever you need it to. They are a FANTASTIC bang for the buck company. Definitely one of the firearms manufacturers that you should feel out several pistols from. I personally do not like Taurus. In my opinion, they're like the Hyundai of the firearms world. They're cheap and affordable, however you get what you pay for. Their reputation and quality may have improved within the last couple years...however it's not like they could have gotten much worse

 

[Osiris19]

Wow, I am absolutely thrilled with all of the great information you've all given me. It's made me feel a lot more comfortable about going through with the process. All these tips will certainly help me in my decisions and I will definitely take my time and focus on what you've all said to make sure I get the perfect fitting gun. Like I said my friend is gonna take me to go look at some and maybe I'll get to actually test feel a few and get an overview of what it's like. The closest I've had to a firearm was an STG-44, and MP-40, a Sten gun, and an M1911, which were all unloaded of course (was at a WWII Reenactment/airshow), however, they were the real deal and I felt the heavyness and what it was like to hold a piece of lethal metal in my hands. Spring break is about 19-20 days from now, so I'm counting down. I'm definitely excited.

Also, I'm very confused on the difference between the Concealed Carry permit and Open Carry. Do you need a permit to purchase a handgun and openly carry it? Say I'm just going to be using it at a range but keep it on my person, visible. Would I need a permit for this? or do you only need a permit for the concealed carry and when you buy a gun you get a background check?

 

[young_]

The laws are different for each state. You'll need to read into it.

In my state, we have background checks when you purchase a rifle or handgun. The cashier makes a phone call, answers a few questions, and you're on your way. If you've ever had any trouble with the law, you may have to wait a few days.

 

[Osiris19]

The only trouble I've had is my license suspension, and that's traffic law. I couldn't understand Pennsylvania's law and that's why I asked if any of you had any insight. It says you need a permit to conceal, of course, but I'm not sure whether you need a permit to own and openly carry.

Nevermind, found the actual plain English law, says its legal to carry openly without a permit, only need a permit to conceal or transport in a vehicle.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[obracer12]

Thanks Vic.

I only say this based on my limited experience with FN pistols. They feel like the quality (tight spec) of a 1911+ sig with the durability of a glock. I love it. Was purely speaking to price.

The only trouble I've had is my license suspension, and that's traffic law. I couldn't understand Pennsylvania's law and that's why I asked if any of you had any insight. It says you need a permit to conceal, of course, but I'm not sure whether you need a permit to own and openly carry.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Basic rule of thumb is to contact your local PD and have the discussion with them, the sg tor cpl you speak with will not be shy. There are varying laws in every state and municipality, better to know yours before you inadvertently break a firearms law.

Something simple you can go into the gun store with is : If you have heard 90% good things about a make/model, it doesn't hurt to hold it and see how you feel about it. Never take what you heard from so and so ( one person) or what you used in your favorite video game into the store, it's more or less worthless information.. unless that so and so is an avid gunny and has/ owned a wide variety or firearms.

The major brands I always advise people to look at:
Glock
Smith & Wesson
Springfield
Ruger
and now FNH ( I used to only recommend holding an FN rifle the SCAR and F2000 variants are some of my favorite rifles to shoot)

Their names haven't existed for so long with such a great reputation by accident.

I do not like taurus either. I feel like they are a knock off company that just makes a cheaper version of someone elses design to cut in on the market. have had far more problems with / uncomfortable time with Taurus products.

If you are looking for a conceal weapon, width, heights and control protrusions are a major factor. you don't want to print heavily or get caught on clothing should you need to present the firearm in a SHTF time. Also take into consideration the cost of a quality holster in this scenario... some of the cheaper ones still range in the $30-50 range. and no your foot of the loom and levis waist band combo will not be sufficient lol.

In my experience in Eastern Pa is conceal > open in popularity ( typical across most carry states) and I believe there are far more restrictions around open carry. Vic correct me if I'm wrong here.

Also, I'm very confused on the difference between the Concealed Carry permit and Open Carry. Do you need a permit to purchase a handgun and openly carry it? Say I'm just going to be using it at a range but keep it on my person, visible. Would I need a permit for this? or do you only need a permit for the concealed carry and when you buy a gun you get a background check?

This would come down to the range rules. Some allow holstering, others do not unless law enforcement , some don't at all.


And not to thread jack, but anyone have any luck with bulk ammo purchases? and if so from where?

 

[vjf915]

some of the cheaper ones still range in the $30-50 range.

In my experience in Eastern Pa is conceal > open in popularity ( typical across most carry states) and I believe there are far more restrictions around open carry. Vic correct me if I'm wrong here.

The quality holster is something I forgot to mention, good catch. I would honestly budget ~$100 for a holster. Depending on the gun you get, they'll probably run just under that.

There's two different schools of thought regarding concealed vs. open carry. Some believe that if they open carry, the 100% affirmation of a firearm on their person will deter any criminals from trying to harm them. Others believe that it will deter those trying to mug people, however will attract someone who wants to illegally obtain a firearm without having to pay for it. The rebuttal to that argument is that a holster with a well designed retention system will prevent that from happening. You need to decide for yourself which path you will choose. I personally believe that your safest bet is to carry concealed, and do whatever you can to not be a target. Be aware of your surroundings, don't be wholly distracted by anything, and you should be just fine. God forbid you DO need to defend yourself, you'll be ready because you know what's going on around you.

If you do purchase a pistol for any kind of self defense, be it in the home or public, make sure you know how to use it first. The only thing worse than not having something to defend yourself with is defending yourself incorrectly. Drawing on someone to defend yourself is going to escalate the situation, so you damn well better know how to use it well. You also need to ensure that you can stop the threat without harming any innocent bystanders. Personally, I don't set up a gun for home defense until I have roughly 500 rounds through it, in various shooting styles. If this is your first firearm, and you plan to carry it, you should plan on shooting at least twice that, and taking at least a course or two on concealed carry.

I know that everything we're recommending is going to cost you much more than you originally expected. However, consider that it's MUCH cheaper than making a mistake and paying the consequences. Using a cheap holster and accidentally shooting yourself in the leg. Using a good holster, but not being a good enough shot under pressure and hitting an innocent bystander. Trust me, they've both happened. These are two of the MANY bad outcomes that will end up costing you much more than a well made holster and some quality training.

 

[Osiris19]

The quality holster is something I forgot to mention, good catch. I would honestly budget ~$100 for a holster. Depending on the gun you get, they'll probably run just under that.

There's two different schools of thought regarding concealed vs. open carry. Some believe that if they open carry, the 100% affirmation of a firearm on their person will deter any criminals from trying to harm them. Others believe that it will deter those trying to mug people, however will attract someone who wants to illegally obtain a firearm without having to pay for it. The rebuttal to that argument is that a holster with a well designed retention system will prevent that from happening. You need to decide for yourself which path you will choose. I personally believe that your safest bet is to carry concealed, and do whatever you can to not be a target. Be aware of your surroundings, don't be wholly distracted by anything, and you should be just fine. God forbid you DO need to defend yourself, you'll be ready because you know what's going on around you.

If you do purchase a pistol for any kind of self defense, be it in the home or public, make sure you know how to use it first. The only thing worse than not having something to defend yourself with is defending yourself incorrectly. Drawing on someone to defend yourself is going to escalate the situation, so you damn well better know how to use it well. You also need to ensure that you can stop the threat without harming any innocent bystanders. Personally, I don't set up a gun for home defense until I have roughly 500 rounds through it, in various shooting styles. If this is your first firearm, and you plan to carry it, you should plan on shooting at least twice that, and taking at least a course or two on concealed carry.

I know that everything we're recommending is going to cost you much more than you originally expected. However, consider that it's MUCH cheaper than making a mistake and paying the consequences. Using a cheap holster and accidentally shooting yourself in the leg. Using a good holster, but not being a good enough shot under pressure and hitting an innocent bystander. Trust me, they've both happened. These are two of the MANY bad outcomes that will end up costing you much more than a well made holster and some quality training.

I'm glad I saw this now before I forgot. I don't plan on making this a quick "put a gun in my hand and a permit and call it a day" kind of thing. If it takes a couple years, so be it. I wanna make sure I am perfectly comfortable with it on me and know that if worse comes to worse, I'm prepared to use it if needed. I'm definitely putting everything in my head and running a course of what will be needed and such. I have a friend who will help me with the process and could go to ranges with me to give me some pointers and help me out along the way. Defense is #1 priority for my reasoning on getting a handgun, however, I do want to practice as much as possible before I actually begin to carry it around. It's a piece of machined metal that has the potential to take a person's life. I don't want to ever be put in that situation unless I have to. Definitely loving the feedback and the amount of information you'e all given me though. I knew I came to the right place.

 

[young_]

I would look into crossbreed for a good holster. Check out their site. Top notch stuff. I have the super tuck deluxe. They're handcrafted, come with a lifetime warranty, and a money back guarantee. You can't go wrong. I also have a blackpoint tactical holster as well and while it's good, it's still no comparison to the crossbreed.

 

[obracer12]

I'm glad I saw this now before I forgot. I don't plan on making this a quick "put a gun in my hand and a permit and call it a day" kind of thing. If it takes a couple years, so be it. I wanna make sure I am perfectly comfortable with it on me and know that if worse comes to worse, I'm prepared to use it if needed. I'm definitely putting everything in my head and running a course of what will be needed and such. I have a friend who will help me with the process and could go to ranges with me to give me some pointers and help me out along the way. Defense is #1 priority for my reasoning on getting a handgun, however, I do want to practice as much as possible before I actually begin to carry it around. It's a piece of machined metal that has the potential to take a person's life. I don't want to ever be put in that situation unless I have to. Definitely loving the feedback and the amount of information you'e all given me though. I knew I came to the right place.

Vic, the holster was brought up to me in my first carry job where we had the choice of conceal or open.. it made a world of difference in how I trained and how effective I was in testing. Had an ALS 6378 for conceal and SLS 6004 for open. Both were nice and moderately priced... preferred the 6004 for speed, but was more comfortable with conceal across the board. I felt I had more control over the situation if someone didn't know I was carrying.. Deescalation works much better when the butt of a gun isn't staring someone in the face, then you have the element of surprise should you need to present.

I'm in a state that won't allow any form of carry without "imminent threat" or your job requires it.. so a CCW is almost impossible to get... so home defense is the reason I still own a pistol.

But from the jobs I had when I did carry, it is a learning curve.. where to carry comfortably, carrying in condition 1 with and without ( carried a Glock 19) a manual saftey ( carried a Ruger P95) (should your firearm have one and training for it ), types of clothing to wear while carrying and not favoring that side or "gun walking" while carrying... it's a very foreign thing at first.. but after a while it's no big deal.


Don't cheap out. buy a quality firearm and train with it at various ranges ( no more than 50 yards IHMO ) learn to maintain it properly, a dirty gun is more prone to malfunction ( same as an over lubed gun) making it useless. And as Vic said a quality holster.
What size/type of round will you carry? 9mm @ 147 grain JHP? 9mm 135grain JHP+P? 9mm 115g FMJ? Something exotic? Have you trained with this round? these are the little things that people don't think about.. when you shoot at the range with 115g target rounds then switch to a hot load of 147g, barrel flip and recoil go up and it throws you off a little making follow-up shots more difficult.

You almost don't have a choice in how long it takes lol. it may take years to be proficient with any firearm but once you get it, it's like riding a bike.

Hey man this is what CC has been like for a while ( when the OGs stick around).. so long as a internet thug doesn't thread crash most are informational lol.

 

[fernyrgv]

Beretta 9mm.... 9mm ammo ia cheap u get 100rnds for about 20buks also the ar15 223/556 or ak47 7.62x39 bith of those assault riffles have cheap ammo n if ur one of those preppers well 9mm 223/557 &7.62x39 are military ammo n will have alot of those lol (just sayin) good luck

 

[obracer12]

Beretta 9mm.... 9mm ammo ia cheap u get 100rnds for about 20buks also the ar15 223/556 or ak47 7.62x39 bith of those assault riffles have cheap ammo n if ur one of those preppers well 9mm 223/557 &7.62x39 are military ammo n will have alot of those lol (just sayin) good luck

^ except the cost of those firearms... especially for a beginner are VERY cost prohibitive, regardless of the ammo cost. and none of them are viable conceal carries...

I assume you mean A1 for the baretta ( the px4 storm is terrible IMO, the rotation on the barrel during cycling screams failure to me) - $800+-
I assume a base AR15 - $1800+-
I assume a full size Kalashnikov Sam7 - $1100-1400

Ammo worth putting in your firearm is at least $16.50 for 50 rounds of 9mm 115 grain
.223 is ~$9 for 20
7.62x39 ~$15 for 20

the steel case crap like wolf, bear and tul should just stay out of a firearm if you don't want to full strip and clean every time you shoot ( and by full strip I mean upper take down as well as field takedown)

 

[young_]

I agree with all of the points you made except the 1800 dollars for a base ar15. A colt mil spec ar15 in 5.56 is 1200 at Walmart all day. Smith and wesson m&p makes an ar15 for 600 bucks. Not the best but definitely a "base" AR.

:O

Prices could be different in different areas though. No disrespect intended, just listing local prices.

One of my customers just dropped by work and showed me his new KSG 12 gauge. Very cool shotgun.

 

[vjf915]

One thing I'd like to mention based on the past couple comments, a pistol is mostly a defensive firearm. They're not effective at doing actual damage like a rifle or shotgun are. That being said, you can't just go carrying around a rifle or shotgun with you. Typically you want to go with whatever you're the most comfortable with. However if you can manage, a rifle with the right ammo is actually the best firearm in terms of damage done vs. chance of carrying through barriers such as walls and harming innocent people. A rifle round will lose quite a bit of energy when traveling through the first interior wall, while a pistol or shotgun have a higher tendency to carry through and maintain more energy, putting other house residents or even neighbors at risk.

 

[obracer12]

I agree with all of the points you made except the 1800 dollars for a base ar15. A colt mil spec ar15 in 5.56 is 1200 at Walmart all day. Smith and wesson m&p makes an ar15 for 600 bucks. Not the best but definitely a "base" AR.

:O

Prices could be different in different areas though. No disrespect intended, just listing local prices.

One of my customers just dropped by work and showed me his new KSG 12 gauge. Very cool shotgun.

I just hopped on gunbroker and looked at the most recent prices lol

I hear mixed reviews on the KSG 12, some are amazing, others have broken some of the polymer action parts.

One thing I'd like to mention based on the past couple comments, a pistol is mostly a defensive firearm. They're not effective at doing actual damage like a rifle or shotgun are. That being said, you can't just go carrying around a rifle or shotgun with you. Typically you want to go with whatever you're the most comfortable with. However if you can manage, a rifle with the right ammo is actually the best firearm in terms of damage done vs. chance of carrying through barriers such as walls and harming innocent people. A rifle round will lose quite a bit of energy when traveling through the first interior wall, while a pistol or shotgun have a higher tendency to carry through and maintain more energy, putting other house residents or even neighbors at risk.

Agreed.

Most of that is due to the weight of the projectile. Rifles are usually smaller projectiles with a larger charge, which give you amazing velocity, but when brass/copper hit something at a high velocity it shatters causing massive damage, but very little continual penetration... unlike a handgun cartridge or shotgun load.

 

[ImportFan1]

I can't remember who it is but someone one here works at Kel-Tec.

I want a KSG...

 

[vjf915]

I can't remember who it is but someone one here works at Kel-Tec.

I want a KSG...

Word. I actually thought it was young_ until he posted about someone bringing the KSG in. Unless it is him? I remember talking to whoever it was through PM a while back, but I cleared out my PM's.

I've also heard mixed reviews about the KSG. It's a really cool design. The only issue with that is the more moving pieces, the more there is to break. Combine that with a relatively par to sub-par manufacturer, and it just didn't turn out that well. If I was going to have a cool shotgun, I'd buy and convert a Saiga 12. Or for something simple and cheap, you can't go wrong with an 870 or 500.

 

[ImportFan1]

Word. I actually thought it was young_ until he posted about someone bringing the KSG in. Unless it is him? I remember talking to whoever it was through PM a while back, but I cleared out my PM's.

Found it. It's sohclubkid and he got another member a job there as well. Here's the thread I remember.

http://www.clubcivic.com/board/showthread.php?t=214917

 

[vjf915]

Yup that's it.

 

[obracer12]

Vic any suggestions for a defensive shooting course?

I take one on Sunday ( both live fire and classroom) and never have taken one.

 

[Bhikku]

I agree with all of the points you made except the 1800 dollars for a base ar15. A colt mil spec ar15 in 5.56 is 1200 at Walmart all day. Smith and wesson m&p makes an ar15 for 600 bucks. Not the best but definitely a "base" AR.

:O

Prices could be different in different areas though. No disrespect intended, just listing local prices.

One of my customers just dropped by work and showed me his new KSG 12 gauge. Very cool shotgun.

I've been wanting one of these KSG's for a while. who cares about practicality?