What Do U Guys Think of This Setup?

[Taco]

I found what looks like a good setup for a turbo application, just wanted to see what you guys thought about it.

It's the Dart B-20-based block, New-In-Box condition, with an Eagle Crank, Rods, & Piston Kit. Kit includes rings, wrist pins and locks. Pistons are 8.5:1 CR (Varies depending on head, obviously, but something close to that)

What I need from you guys is a good Top-End. What head would be good for this setup. I'd really like to make close to 400 h.p., more if possible, reliably. I know next to nothing about 4 Cyl. heads, so I need you guys to steer me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance!

Taco

 

[Ravage70]

a ported b16 head with a very aggressive valvetrain would be nice

but for 400 hp u can use stock sleeves and u really dont have to port anything
for a daily driver ur setup is 2 extreme, that block can take upwards of 600hp

 

[Handlebars]

400 hp on a street car.. lol.

 

[97civicracer]

b16 head....400 is a shitload ....GO FOR IT

 

[Exospeed*com]

Taco no offense, but you need to research more about built turbo setups. Look into our website on our race blocks on what we can do for the B-motors. for 400hp, you dont need that much upgraded parts for the block. a basic piston and rod setup is good enough for the turbo setup. if you want to take it up another level, sleeve the block.
but eagle crank or new Dart block is not necesarry. we make 700-800hp on the race cars we build and they use stock crank still and on Honda/Acura blocks.
I believe those Dart setups would cost in the $5000-6000 range just for the bottom end. Thats double what we use on our 8/9 sec race cars.

 

[420GREEN]

You can use any head in the b-series clan, back in the day we all used LS heads ported to hell, but now everyone's sayin a VTEC head because it flows so well stock, But you will have to get some head work done anyway to run a streetable 400plus horses. So any head is alright............just find a reputable shop to do your headwork..........alot of shops have a "racemotors" Take great care, just take your time and see who has the history, and time to help you personally and not just tryin to make a buck off your ass and leave you stranded with a hole in your wallet.........I go to Dennis@LDL Speed Shop
Las Vegas, NV
702-643-9768 He's old school and knows his s**t, like me but I got outta the game........BTW He's the owner, tell him Chad from the old ProStreet sent ya.....................PEACE

 

[Taco]

Well, no offense, ExoSpeed, but I can get that bottom end setup for $3000, and have the machine work and assembly done by our in house engine builder. I said I wanted 400, I should've said I want to make 400 now, with plenty to upgrade with later. I know I want the Dart Block and Eagle setup, I just need advice on the top end of the motor.

I fully expect to end up well over 600 hp before I'm "Done" with this thing, and reliability is going to Priority #1! Not that other setups aren't reliable, but I don't think you're gonna get more bulletproof that what I'm looking at, especially for the price.

Thanks for the advice all of you, I'm taking all this into consideration. Keep it comin!

Taco

 

[Beelzebubba]

Dart block.....don't know anyone actually running one on the street. in an import anyway.

As far as the head, that's the source of much debate. Many tuners say B16, many saying B18C5. As difficult as it is to find a ITR head and as much as one costs I'm leaning towards the B16 and spend the rest that you would have spent on the ITR head on Extrude honing or flow bench work, and/ or cams and valvetrain.

 

[Taco]

Sounds like good advice there.

I know of one guy locally that RAN a Dart block, but due to less-than-stellar machine work (clearances not checked, wrong bearings, etc) it didn't live long.

My engine guy builds 500+ CID Race motors all day, and I've seen only a few come back, all due to faulty parts (mostly lifters, 1 broken crank) and the engine in my dragster has over 200 passes since fresh, and runs a good as the day it was built, 4.80's in the 1/8th mile all day.
I've watched him build and assemble, and I've yet to see anybody so meticulous about clearances and fitment.

I'm pretty sure I can get the Dart block to live nearly forever on the street, with a great deal of power available!

Thanks again for the advice guys, and keep it coming!

Taco

 

[evan2]

b16a and itr head are the same minus the mild pp the itr head has, if your going for boost just get a nice b16 head, do some work to it build up the valve train
get ITR lmas, talk to brad at RLZ about modding them..

 

[Taco]

Ok, I knew it was coming, my Noob-ness in coming out.

Evan, I like your ideas, but I don't understand some of what you were saying:

mild pp the itr head

get ITR lmas

Can you translate those into Noob-ish for me, please!

Thanks for the advice!

Taco

 

[Taco]

P.S. That's a slick ride you got man, subtle enough, yet nice enough to stand out from the masses!

You got more pics?

Taco

 

[Exospeed*com]

I dont know if you guys have seen these NHRA Hot rod cars, but these cars have simple setups that dont need Eagle cranks or custom blocks.

This particualar Civic is running one of our race motors and put out 500hp at 17psi. We were limited to a 6 puck clutch so we held back the power to 500 since we still have to upgrade to a twin diskc clutch and get rid of the stock axles. We thought the clutch would hold at that power, but first run destroyed the clutch. once we get those upgrades done, it'll make over 700 for sure.

Another racecar running our race motor. this integra is so simple and making about 700hp. motor is pretty much a basic Port and polish with valvetrain and valves. same stuff that we have on our website. nothing fancy. block is basic stage 4 race block too. and its clockin in at 9.30@ over 150mph.

I assume you arent competing in any race series so the DART block will be fine. If you are planning to, you have to check if they will allow the DART block since most aftermarket heads and blocks arent allowed in the race series.

As far as headwork. when going turbo, you really just have to concentrate on the valvetrain and valves first. port n polish is good as well, but is not necesarry right away. at high HP and boost, its best to focus on having a better Valvetrain for those high rpms and better valves for smoother flow.

 

[Taco]

I hadn't thought about the various series not allowing the Dart block. While I have no intentions right now of running any sanctioned races, I can't say that I never will.

I am not stubborn enough to argue with a pro when it comes to 4 cyl's, since I know pretty much nil about them. Those are definitely some impressive numbers and about what i had in mind, but you know there's a "but"!

How "streetable" are those cars. I can see the Civic being somewhat streetable, but that 'Teg... I just can't see it happening. I'm looking for a setup that'll rum from here to Atlanta at least (350 miles) with my right foot on it. That's a lot to ask of any motor, trust me!

The setup in the Civic, tell me about it, in some detail. Not super detailed, but I want to know what's up with that ride! And talk HP to me, I am going to run a full interior, stereo, AC, PS, everything, I just want some SICK power on tap when needed!

Thanks,

Taco

p.s. You can PM me if you want, I would like some prices as well!

 

[Exospeed*com]

Taco and everyone else. In no way am I putting down the DART block, ok. its a great part and is the next step in this industry. Its just at this time there are so many rules and regulations in our import race series that you have to watch out what you put on the car. a simple thing such as cutting out the spare tire well, bumps you to Pro Class from the street class. just an FYI.

of course the integra body i showed above is not streetable. its a pure Drag car. what is interesting though is the setup is 95% identical on the yellow civic and the Gold integra. the turbo is slightly bigger on the yellow civic but the block and head are pretty much the same.

Streetability is all in the tuning of the setup. the motor we put in the yellow civic is for max power and we put in about $1500 on just the fuel system alone. it can be downgraded to just an upgraded fuel pump and we wouldnt have to go steel braid lines and fittings for a street car. and the injectors would be under 800cc instead of 1600cc. that would put it in a class more for street reliability and we'd of course lower the boost for daily driving. other than that, it can pretty much be put in a street car and still kick some ass.

when you run street setup also, the type of manifolds you can use will be limited since you have to have AC and PS clearance. Look into a stage 4 block and stage 3 head from us and thats pretty much what this civic has internally.
good luck on your car and feel free to email us if you have any questions. sorry i cant check into PMs that often so email will be perfect for any questions.

oh and another opinion. for a pure street car. 350hp is good enough. anything over that is really not usable or you'll rarely be able to use that much hp. thats even if you are lucky if it can be put to the ground without all the wheelspin.

Wil

 

[Handlebars]

you really cant put down more than 250 whp or so on street tires, and even then, your burning through 1st and most of 2nd gear. with a proper suspension setup and some good street tires, 250 whp is damn fast- 12 sec timeslips are easily obtainable. with a full drag car, with slicks and such, 11's or possibly even 10s if your light enough. ive seen b20/vtecs with 150-160 whp n/a with stock blocks and stock b16 heads in drag cars run mid 12's. if you are running a pure street car, you really dont need to build the block- b series motors are good for nearly 300 whp on good tuning and a good turbo setup. and as i said, even then that much hp is overkill unless you want to run slicks all the time. i find that most people with huge setups on their street cars run 5-10 psi 99% of the time, and only very rarely actually use the huge hp numbers they paid several grand for. otherwise they live with an extremely laggy turbo, no emissions systems, etc. where as a properly setup street system on a stock block will cost a small fraction of that, and be infinitely more fun to drive than the 500 hp beast.

 

[Ravage70]

^^^u forgot to add that i like cookies

 

[banzai]

you can get 12-sec timeslips (easily) with a civic si that has 250whp? Whered you hear that from? Any proof?

 

[Handlebars]

you can get 12-sec timeslips (easily) with a civic si that has 250whp? Whered you hear that from? Any proof?

i didnt say an si- i said a car properly prepped, properly setup, and with a good driver. a heavy si will have a tough time in that area, unless its stripped out.

 

[banzai]

I agree, I was gonna add with full interior, which is what this Taco guy is wanting, if I'm not mistaken...