Health Care Reform

Bheims

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Another issue i have is that Obama smashes on big companies that over spend. He claims that government needed a change because they were wasting money on useless stuff. But, look at Michelle Obama's staff, 22 people? and the price for them is sad..

1. $172,2000 - Sher, Susan (Chief Of Staff)

2. $140,000 - Frye, Jocelyn C. (Deputy Assistant to the President and Director of Policy And Projects For The First Lady)

3. $113,000 - Rogers, Desiree G. (Special Assistant to the President and White House Social Secretary)

4. $102,000 - Johnston, Camille Y. (Special Assistant to the President and Director of Communications for the First Lady)

5. Winter, Melissa E. (Special Assistant to the President and Deputy Chief Of Staff to the First Lady)

etc
I got this in an email...i wonder how accurate this actually is. Its disturbing either way

OC - that was a good read. I dont even know how to respond to that other than x2. I agree 100% and especially like: there are two problems
1) TOO much free **** for people who do NOTHING
2) not enough work for people who WANT to work

It is encouraging to see that the "average" american can point out what needs to change but we all lack the influence and money to make these a reality. Instead it is left to a select few who do not understand what its like to be "average". Government handouts are ridiculous, people learn to expect them and eventually take them for granted. I really hope they begin drug testing individuals who need welfare. Overall the system is f-d...and it will take a drastic swing in public opinion to change it for the better and unfortunately the majority is not motivated to change their ways...
 

oc_civic

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Because everyone is out to please their party, that's the main deal breaker.
this is the problem.. be it Obama, Bush, it really doesnt matter.. but politicians NEED to get OUT of that mindset.. and the ONE thing i THOUGHT this guy would do (based on all his speeches) is buck that part of the system... It is really disappointing (even with being a DIEHARD anti Obama guy) to see business as usual in Washington..
 


Mr. Jollypants

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this is the problem.. be it Obama, Bush, it really doesnt matter.. but politicians NEED to get OUT of that mindset.. and the ONE thing i THOUGHT this guy would do (based on all his speeches) is buck that part of the system... It is really disappointing (even with being a DIEHARD anti Obama guy) to see business as usual in Washington..
You can't say he hasn't tried. He's done several meetings inviting republicans to work together, but it always turns out to that mindset again. I like when Obama put McCain in his place at a meeting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i0bDbYUUhY&feature=related
 

Mr. Jollypants

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This is in no way trying to seem argumentive, just splitting this up into a more manageable post so I can discuss.

this may be the ONLY time we ever agree in one of these threads.. but i agree FULLY...
:shock:

history..

health care becomes higher and higher demand as population increases...
schools increase by a s**t ton amount in charging people to learn to be in the medical field...
people pay a ton to learn...
they go into practice and thus charge a ton to perform..
companies who provide materials for them to perform SEE the profit the medical industry makes so THEY in turn charge a ton for equipment ($2k staplers)
pharmaceutical companies jump on board..

costs skyrocket at a disproportionate rate to the increase in earnings others are seeing while performing other jobs..
Exactly. This should have been looked at way before now. It's just outrageous of the costs all so someone can keep their 14 million dollar house, give their kid a ferrari.

meaning i have been at the same job for ten years.. i NOW make 4x what i made in the beginning but health costs have rose 200x.. so how the f**k am i supposed to cover the difference..
I looked a my fathers past paycheck, it was 1000 dollar paycheck, 200 of that went to insurance for him and my mother, and that didn't include dental OR eyecare. Not to mention the 50 dollar copay. I never did understand the whole copay bullshit. If I'm paying for insurance, an UNGODLY amount for insurance, why am I still paying 20 or 40 bucks as a "copay?"

**this is where out opinion on the solution may differ**
i dont KNOW what the answer is.. but i can say that i DONT feel government handouts are the answer.. i feel the BEST solution to ANY problem is the LEAST amount of government interference... maybe it is time to look at businesses like the health care industry as a whole, as they DO on some level monopolize the market.. its not really like a TV that you can shop around for.. MAYBE having common sense limits on increases in cost over time would be reasonable..
No government hand outs are the answer, enough is already being given out, and it's being given out to the wrong people, the ones who abuse it, ones who don't need it, ect.

BUT the problem is FAR greater than JUST health care.. the problem is we are a country of gross waste.... and assbackwards thinking...
Exactly. Completely agree.

from the economy, immigration, gun control, health care.. EVERYTHING is ridiculously screwed up..
Couldn't agree more.

it all starts with the thought of entitlement.. people THINK that the government should care for them (welfare, housing assistance, etc.. )... people think that by merely being born within the confines of these borders (or immigrating to) that equates a free lunch... and the government REINFORCES that... I was standing behind a women in line at the grocery store the other day and she had SEVERAL gallons of milk.. and she was talking to her friend.. and her friend said something like "whach you need all that milk for" and the lady responded something like "if i dont use up all the credit im given (she had that food stamp credit card thing) they might not give me as much later... its cool i just give the milk to my friend next door"... so this a*****e is buying milk with MY tax dollars.. and redistributing it as she sees fit.. and WHY is she doing this? because she is SO greedy that she wants to be SURE she gets the MOST she can even if its WELL more than she needs..
This is why they shouldn't get food stamps. I wish the government would be more stringent about this stuff. Take a look at receipts, look at the amount she makes, ect. It would be worth it to do this.

there are two problems
1) TOO much free **** for people who do NOTHING
2) not enough work for people who WANT to work
Exactly.

these two problems could be solved pretty quickly but it would take a HUGE nationwide turn around.. we could increase jobs by removing the illegal immigrant element.. this would free up jobs for those currently "collecting".. once there is a surplus of jobs you remove the easily obtainable welfare.. people say "oh people dont want to work the jobs illegals do" and that is true.. why because they have been conditioned to think that they are above that..
They don't want to work it because they think they are too good for it. I can understand if it's a job that you can't do because of medical reasons, or such, but not just because "you're too good for it."

yank someones welfare..
let them sit for a couple weeks..
and that job doing crap work at the local farm will look FAR more appealing as hunger sits in.
Not just their welfare, but everything else they are getting.

the other issue is our ridiculous legal system.. we OVER COMPLICATE everything..
law could be simplified down to some VERY basic principals... the reevaluation and removal of laws that have no practical benefit would reduce the demand of national security (dea, police, etc..) these forces could then be used to actually address the task of removing people who should not be here..
I agree. TSA, DHS, ect, are all a waste of money. TSA has shown SEVERAL times that they cannot do their job they are hired for. They constantly fail bomb checks and tests, but yet pretty soon they are going to be able to see you completely naked from a scanner.

Could go on for days.. but if you start SIMPLE

Shut down illegals from coming in..
*reduces demand on LE
*reduces resource waste caring for people who do NOT belong here
*reduces money being earned in this nation (tax free) and sent abroad (thus increasing money spent here)
*reduces criminal activity created by people who are virtually untraceable
*creates more jobs
Yup.

This creation of more jobs would then be transferred to actual citizens which would then create less of a need for government handouts
Not to mention would increase the governments income and be able to pay off the 14 trillion dollar debt or whatever it is now.

This would create less of a need for taxation, thus increasing the money that stays in YOUR pocket...
f**k taxation. Income tax, sales tax, gasoline tax, tax for overweight vehicles, ect. We get taxed on everything, I wouldn't be surprised if we start getting taxed for the air we breathe.

All of this would then make it more reasonable to buy things like health insurance..
Ding ding ding.
 


oc_civic

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You can't say he hasn't tried. He's done several meetings inviting republicans to work together, but it always turns out to that mindset again. I like when Obama put McCain in his place at a meeting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i0bDbYUUhY&feature=related
dood hes been in office over a year... the health care thing morning noon and night for a YEAR.. whats the friggin hold up? I am not saying he has to solve the thing over night.. but whats the progress.. "we are working towards a resolution" :roll: If my boss told me "increase sales by %10 over the next 6 months" and at the end of the 6 months we evaluated everything and there was a %0 increase.. do you think the answer "i tried" would be good enough.. i recognize its a HUGE task.. but seriously..
 

Mr. Jollypants

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dood hes been in office over a year... the health care thing morning noon and night for a YEAR.. whats the friggin hold up? I am not saying he has to solve the thing over night.. but whats the progress.. "we are working towards a resolution" :roll: If my boss told me "increase sales by %10 over the next 6 months" and at the end of the 6 months we evaluated everything and there was a %0 increase.. do you think the answer "i tried" would be good enough.. i recognize its a HUGE task.. but seriously..
He's been working at it, but what can he do if he has the republicans shooting it down everytime it comes up.

Everyone seems to think the President has the power to do anything he wants. He can't write up a bill, sign it and say "It's been passed."
 

oc_civic

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f**k taxation. Income tax, sales tax, gasoline tax, tax for overweight vehicles, ect. We get taxed on everything, I wouldn't be surprised if we start getting taxed for the air we breathe.
they are talking about enacting a tax on soda in philadelphia now... :roll:

wtf is next..
 

Mr. Jollypants

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they are talking about enacting a tax on soda in philadelphia now... :roll:

wtf is next..
Taxing the s**t that comes out of your ass and the amount of flushes you use a day :lol:
 

oc_civic

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He's been working at it, but what can he do if he has the republicans shooting it down everytime it comes up.

Everyone seems to think the President has the power to do anything he wants. He can't write up a bill, sign it and say "It's been passed."

well the problem is NOT just republicans.. the problem is sure the republicans dont want it and will vote it down.. BUT there are also some democrats against it as well last i heard.. again dont want to be too detailed as i have kind of stopped keeping up on it as much as i should...
 

Mr. Jollypants

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well the problem is NOT just republicans.. the problem is sure the republicans dont want it and will vote it down.. BUT there are also some democrats against it as well last i heard.. again dont want to be too detailed as i have kind of stopped keeping up on it as much as i should...
I'm not saying the bill is perfect, but they should worry about the basics, get that passed THEN worry about adding to it after it's been added and reform is being done. No one wants to do that, they want to make the bill better for their party, then keep making it better for their party.
 

LowNotSlow

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heh, I pay $400 a month for health insurance (no dental) for my wife and I. Two young people in good health.

Four hundred f**king dollars a month. What does Obama's bill do to reduce that cost? Nothing. It makes expensive healthcare available to more people. Now even more people can pay out money but the people who don't work for s**t will just have the feds pay for it.
 

Voltio

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heh, I pay $400 a month for health insurance (no dental) for my wife and I. Two young people in good health.

Four hundred f**king dollars a month. What does Obama's bill do to reduce that cost? Nothing. It makes expensive healthcare available to more people. Now even more people can pay out money but the people who don't work for s**t will just have the feds pay for it.
one step closer to socialism
 

oc_civic

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heh, I pay $400 a month for health insurance (no dental) for my wife and I. Two young people in good health.

Four hundred f**king dollars a month. What does Obama's bill do to reduce that cost? Nothing. It makes expensive healthcare available to more people. Now even more people can pay out money but the people who don't work for s**t will just have the feds pay for it.
the reality is if things go as planned (providing health care to those who can not afford it) i believe it to net two possible outcomes..

1) YOUR insurance goes UP due to offset the "discount" that is "imposed" to get the middle of the road people insured...

2) YOUR taxes increase due to offset the "discount" that is "imposed" to get the middle of the road people insured...

i can NOT see how you take something and give it to someone at a "cheaper" rate without spreading the cost to others who are deemed "capable" of paying the higher cost..

just like everything else..
 

Voltio

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I wonder if we'll end up like Canada. Everyone has healthcare, but the waiting times for an appt. are ridiculous due to that system. I just don't get this whole "spreading the wealth" mentality. Everyone needs to have health insurance, but not everybody has to work and pay for it. Awesome policy :roll:
 

Mr. Jollypants

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It's not just for the people who don't have it, it's also for people who can't get it because they get turned down because they have cancer, or their insurer drops them because they are costing too much money with chemo and other medications. This is a country where everyone needs health care. I don't go to the doctor because I don't have insurance because I don't want to pay for it, so I just deal with the health issues that pop up, but there are children and old folks who don't have insurance because they can't afford or their parents can't afford it so they end up getting a cold or a fever and a few weeks later having to be rushed to the hospital with no insurance and no way to pay for the cost.

Either way, someones paying for it, that's where your tax money comes in from. It's not YOUR tax money, it's the governments tax money, since they own the money.
 

oc_civic

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It's not just for the people who don't have it, it's also for people who can't get it because they get turned down because they have cancer, or their insurer drops them because they are costing too much money with chemo and other medications. This is a country where everyone needs health care. I don't go to the doctor because I don't have insurance because I don't want to pay for it, so I just deal with the health issues that pop up, but there are children and old folks who don't have insurance because they can't afford or their parents can't afford it so they end up getting a cold or a fever and a few weeks later having to be rushed to the hospital with no insurance and no way to pay for the cost.

Either way, someones paying for it, that's where your tax money comes in from. It's not YOUR tax money, it's the governments tax money, since they own the money.
everything you said true.. EXCEPT the last part.. the government does not own money.. money is in place as a place holder for value.. it is essentially credit so we do NOT need real time bartering.... when i EARN the money i have i have earned it in exchange for goods or services..

the money collected through taxation is bullshit.. but thats a whole different can of worms.. :P
 

Mr. Jollypants

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everything you said true.. EXCEPT the last part.. the government does not own money.. money is in place as a place holder for value.. it is essentially credit so we do NOT need real time bartering.... when i EARN the money i have i have earned it in exchange for goods or services..

the money collected through taxation is bullshit.. but thats a whole different can of worms.. :P
Money actually has no value, it has no gold or any other substance of value backing it up. The value of the money printed is determined by the international community by it's exchange rate. To put it simply, the moneys value is worth whatever a group of people think it's worth.
 

oc_civic

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Money actually has no value, it has no gold or any other substance of value backing it up. The value of the money printed is determined by the international community by it's exchange rate. To put it simply, the moneys value is worth whatever a group of people think it's worth.
right.. like i said.. it is an expected universal note to denote value of trade... these items have more "value" so will be noted with more value in paper money as a note...
 

Voltio

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[YOUTUBE="Really?!?"]KoE1R-xH5To[/YOUTUBE]
wow... :roll:

I'll sell you this box of s**t... but you won't know that it's full of s**t until you've given me your non-refundable payment :???:
 


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