Health Care Reform

[Lopez619]

people illegally in the country is the NUMBER one concern.. it f**ks EVERYTHING up...

*illegal immigrants earn US money here, and send a large chunk of it back "home", every time a dollar leaves our nation we are one step closer to being broke...
*illegal immigrants have kids just like everyone else.. these kids go to school.. who pays for these "extra kids"? the TAX payers of the community..Illegal immigrants put a strain on ALL resources that are dealt out based on population as they are not accurately counted..
*Illegals take up jobs jobless Americans could be working..
*when illegal immigrants create crime its a cluster f**k trying to track them down since they are totally undocumented...

I see where you're coming from but please explain; how is a dollar leaving our nation taking us one step closer to being broke?

Why complain about illegal immigrants kid's? whats the difference between them and American kids?

yes illegal immigrants take jobs that could be given to jobless Americans but really, how many Americans would go out and work in the fields picking cherrys or apples?

i do agree with you saying that illegal immigrants create crime that is a mess to deal with.

Im not an illegal immigrant, im not even an immigrant at all, but everytime someone complains about illegal immigrants it makes me think; what were Americans when they came to north america? IMMIGRANTS, the original Americans came here in search of a better life for them and their families. illegal immigrants are no different. they are just looking for a better life than the one that is available to them in their countrys.

 

[Mr. Jollypants]

I see where you're coming from but please explain; how is a dollar leaving our nation taking us one step closer to being broke?

That money is leaving the US and going to be spent in another country. This doesn't allow that money to flow within the United States, it allows the money to flow in another country, which helps their economy, not ours.

Why complain about illegal immigrants kid's? whats the difference between them and American kids?

The American kids parents pay taxes.

yes illegal immigrants take jobs that could be given to jobless Americans but really, how many Americans would go out and work in the fields picking cherrys or apples?

Quite a few. If it came to them starving or working picking cherries they'd pick working.

i do agree with you saying that illegal immigrants create crime that is a mess to deal with.

Good, wouldn't want you to be delusional or anything.

Im not an illegal immigrant, im not even an immigrant at all, but everytime someone complains about illegal immigrants it makes me think; what were Americans when they came to north america? IMMIGRANTS, the original Americans came here in search of a better life for them and their families. illegal immigrants are no different. they are just looking for a better life than the one that is available to them in their countrys.

I have a problem with illegal immigrants who don't speak English, don't plan on learning it and don't plan on going the correct path to become a citizen of this country. Make them pay taxes and contribute the country they came here to have a better life for. If they are here for over a year and not taking English classes and doing the due process to become a legal citizen, they need to be deported.

 

[Lopez619]

If they are here for over a year and not taking English classes and doing the due process to become a legal citizen, they need to be deported.

I agree with this.

 

[oc_civic]

no regrets summed it up pretty good but..

I see where you're coming from but please explain; how is a dollar leaving our nation taking us one step closer to being broke?

no regrets hit it on the head.. simple enough to understand..

Why complain about illegal immigrants kid's? whats the difference between them and American kids?

because they do NOT BELONG here.. actually illegal immigrant kids are the WORSE.. because just being BORN here grants them citizenship (think ONE MORE MOUTH TO FEED)... and then what if the illegal parents are caught.. what a clusterfuck.. further they put MORE strain on already over worked system (child services, welfare, schooling, etc..)

yes illegal immigrants take jobs that could be given to jobless Americans but really, how many Americans would go out and work in the fields picking cherrys or apples?

post 20
http://www.clubcivic.com/board/showpost.php?p=2881693&postcount=20

these two problems could be solved pretty quickly but it would take a HUGE nationwide turn around.. we could increase jobs by removing the illegal immigrant element.. this would free up jobs for those currently "collecting".. once there is a surplus of jobs you remove the easily obtainable welfare.. people say "oh people dont want to work the jobs illegals do" and that is true.. why because they have been conditioned to think that they are above that..

yank someones welfare..
let them sit for a couple weeks..
and that job doing crap work at the local farm will look FAR more appealing as hunger sits in..

Im not an illegal immigrant, im not even an immigrant at all, but everytime someone complains about illegal immigrants it makes me think; what were Americans when they came to north america? IMMIGRANTS, the original Americans came here in search of a better life for them and their families. illegal immigrants are no different. they are just looking for a better life than the one that is available to them in their countrys.

there are a few ways a group of people can integrate into a region...
1) is to legally enter that country and abide by its laws and become part of that country (what my family has done here in america)
2) Illegally or by war/force... this is the means by which America was acquired from "Native Americans"..

We attacked the native people and won this nation for the most part through violence.. land has been exchanged from one group of people to another group over the entire course of history through violence.. this is normal.. groups of people fight... if you are saying "you took this land by force and you have no right being here.. pack your s**t and go.. go find a country that is ONLY inhabited by the people who are native to that country.. i wish you luck..

I view Illegal immigration as a really really blatant aggressive act WE (the US) set in place a LEGAL standard by which people may enter the country.. these illegals breach our border, commit acts of violence against our people, and steal our resources.. people treat this like its NO big deal...and it drives me nuts.. it is NOT a situation were someone accidentally crosses into a HUGE plot of land that happens to belong to someone else.. camps there for a day or two packs up his s**t and goes home... Illegals are sending our country to s**t...

 

[bizoneoeh]

I thought this was about health care reform?




but English classes or not..... ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS, including the white and yellow ones, should be deported. Maybe even spend a little money and implant some kind of GPS deep inside their bodies so we can know where they are at all times!

 

[oc_civic]

I thought this was about health care reform?




but English classes or not..... ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS, including the white and yellow ones, should be deported. Maybe even spend a little money and implant some kind of GPS deep inside their bodies so we can know where they are at all times!

if you are looking for a "gps implant" to SOLVE the problem..

may i suggest the following.. i am fairly certain that the implantation of this device would end problems with illegals.. at at only $1.00 - $2.00 per unit (for a quality one at least) it is a VERY cost effective solution..

 

[bizoneoeh]

^^



I thought about just shooting them but I'd rather have a GPS inside their bodies so they can feel violated just the way they are violating our country.

 

[MR99si]

I see where you're coming from but please explain; how is a dollar leaving our nation taking us one step closer to being broke?

Why complain about illegal immigrants kid's? whats the difference between them and American kids?

yes illegal immigrants take jobs that could be given to jobless Americans but really, how many Americans would go out and work in the fields picking cherrys or apples?

i do agree with you saying that illegal immigrants create crime that is a mess to deal with.

Im not an illegal immigrant, im not even an immigrant at all, but everytime someone complains about illegal immigrants it makes me think; what were Americans when they came to north america? IMMIGRANTS, the original Americans came here in search of a better life for them and their families. illegal immigrants are no different. they are just looking for a better life than the one that is available to them in their countrys.

Good video to watch if you have time:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5871651411393887069&ei=WOObS77PBoHaqAP_ud2LDA&q=illegal+immigration+gumball&hl=en&view=3#

 

[Voltio]

if you are looking for a "gps implant" to SOLVE the problem..

may i suggest the following.. i am fairly certain that the implantation of this device would end problems with illegals.. at at only $1.00 - $2.00 per unit (for a quality one at least) it is a VERY cost effective solution..

 

[DOPEYBOY247]

I just can't believe it has been almost like a year that we have been talking about Healthcare and nothing has happened...
People in Congress need to get things Done. republicans,democrats...whatever.
Obamas problem is that he wants to be the bi-partisan good guy. We can't make Everybody happy; things will not get done like that.
We need to help Americans that Need help.

 

[Voltio]

Im not an illegal immigrant, im not even an immigrant at all, but everytime someone complains about illegal immigrants it makes me think; what were Americans when they came to north america? IMMIGRANTS, the original Americans came here in search of a better life for them and their families. illegal immigrants are no different. they are just looking for a better life than the one that is available to them in their countrys.

Back in the day when people wanted to come here for a better life, they usually came over on a ship straight into New York. Once they arrived, they were all documented and accounted for. They were actually allowed to come in, take a job, learn the language, and eventually, become citizens. It's a long process, but everyone back then did it. If you are here illegally and have a kid, why in the hell would your kid then be legal?? I have a problem with that. The parents status should = the kids status. A lot of people take advantage of this. Get here illegally and have a kid so it makes it tougher for the state to boot them out because it would leave the kid(s) parent-less. "Free" healthcare is paid for by those of us who work and foot the bill for many who don't like to work or have some other BS excuse as to why they are unable to work. All these "extra" people put a strain on the system, and the $$ that used to be enough to cover all the "legal" people now isn't quite enough to cover all the extras. I know this country is a giant melting pot of different races & cultures, but this has become an excuse to allow everyone and their mother to come here illegally and rape & pillage our system.

 

[RonJ]

Illegal immigrants are not covered in the House Heath Care Bill.

 

[LowNotSlow]

I just can't believe it has been almost like a year that we have been talking about Healthcare and nothing has happened...
People in Congress need to get things Done. republicans,democrats...whatever.
Obamas problem is that he wants to be the bi-partisan good guy. We can't make Everybody happy; things will not get done like that.
We need to help Americans that Need help.

No Obama's problem is that he can't do the job because teleprompters aren't good leaders.

 

[Voltio]

Illegal immigrants are not covered in the House Heath Care Bill.

They're not covered by the constitution either

No Obama's problem is that he can't do the job because teleprompters aren't good leaders.

 

[RonJ]

I was trying to keep the focus of the thread on Health Care Reform. The thread has now somewhat drifted to the negative impact of illegal aliens on our economy. While I believe that the U.S. needs to stop the flow of illegal immigration and deport illegal aliens when found here, it's important to point out that illegal immigrants have both positive and negative effects on the U.S. economy. It's a complex issue. The overall impact of illegal immigrants on the U.S. economy is very controversial and not as clear cut bad as some have stated in this thread.

 

[oc_civic]

I was trying to keep the focus of the thread on Health Care Reform. The thread has now somewhat drifted to the negative impact of illegal aliens on our economy. While I believe that the U.S. needs to stop the flow of illegal immigration and deport illegal aliens when found here, it's important to point out that illegal immigrants have both positive and negative effects on the U.S. economy. It's a complex issue. The overall impact of illegal immigrants on the U.S. economy is very controversial and not as clear cut bad as some have stated in this thread.

the problem is this..

we "need" health care reform because we can't "afford" health care....

while the standard system of charging $2k for a stapler and $100 for an asprin SHOULD be addressed...

the CORE problem has a whole hell of a lot to do with the negative impact illegals have on our system.. they absorb absorb absorb and give back NOTHING of any real value..

 

[Mr. Jollypants]

They give back, just not the giving back that we want.

 

[RonJ]

the CORE problem has a whole hell of a lot to do with the negative impact illegals have on our system.. they absorb absorb absorb and give back NOTHING of any real value..

Illegal immigrants surely have some negative impact on the current health care problem; however, I really don't think that they are at the core of the problem. I personally believe that other issues are more central to the health care problem. With respect to your statement about them giving nothing back of real value, there is evidence to suggest that they actually stimulate our economy by being low wage workers for businesses and by purchases that they inevitably must make to live in the country. Again, I am not saying that I want illegal immigrants in our country, just that there are both pros and cons to having them here. It's a very complex issue.

 

[oc_civic]

The overall impact of illegal immigrants on the U.S. economy is very controversial and not as clear cut bad as some have stated in this thread.

TOTALLY disagree..

Illegals hurt us in two very obvious ways..

1) they earn money that in MANY cases is not taxed ("under the table") and then send a large portion of this earned money back to the country they are from to help families... this takes money OUT of the US market and sends it to other nations.. money earned here and not spent here is detrimental to our economy.. you can only withdraw so much from a container without putting back before that container is empty...

2) they work low end jobs that americans have been conditioned not to.. this puts americans out of work.. these then out of work americans who qualify for special help can go draw money out of our government through various forms of aid...

remove illegals
*opens up the job market to americans even if its jobs they dont want
*reduces strain on social services (less people to care for)
*reduces money flying out of the country
*reduces amount of crime.. ILLEGAL aliens ARE criminals..by the most basic definition.. if they have ZERO regard for a law as important as immigration what makes you think they would be likely to follow any other laws..

you could go on for days.. the thought that "ILLEGAL Immigrants" serve a "useful" role in our society by doing work we wont is absurd at best..my family STRUGGLED and went through HELL to be in this country legally.. and it is a HURTFUL slap in the face to allow these scumbags some "special" right.. what makes them any more special than someone suffering in the african desert or someone starving in the street of Russia.. the fact that they can run across our border in the middle of the night?

any ONE MINUTE positive impact illegals generate would be FAR outweighed by the negative..

 

[oc_civic]

Illegal immigrants surely have some negative impact on the current health care problem; however, I really don't think that they are at the core of the problem. I personally believe that other issues are more central to the health care problem. With respect to your statement about them giving nothing back of real value, there is evidence to suggest that they actually stimulate our economy by being low wage workers for businesses and by purchases that they inevitably must make to live in the country. Again, I am not saying that I want illegal immigrants in our country, just that there are both pros and cons to having them here. It's a very complex issue.

the problem is we ALLOWED that to happen.. when i was young.. i worked some of those s**t jobs that illegals do now..

50 years ago... young kids did hard BS work.. working at a farm for example.. older guy might become a butcher... and an educated man might become a lawyer or doctor.. this is the reason we had a middle lower and upper class.. NOW with farming out ALL the BS labor jobs to illegals and foreigners we remove that need.. now highschool kids absorb the middle class jobs which now pay less (relative to time of course)... and now EVERYONE wants to go to college and earn $500k a year.. abolishing the middle class.. you have this huge sprint to try to go from working 20 hours a week in a grocery store.. to being a doctor.. there is NO moderation.. no middle ground.. greed has driven us to be a nation that thinks we are above a hard days work.. and it has made our business owners greedy hogs.. who focus on nothing but the bottom line..

removing ILLEGAL workers BEGINS to shift things back into balance...

YES a restaurant can make more profit by hiring illegals to do dish washing..
but they can ALSO increase profit by making your burger out of a cat they trapped in the alley..

BOTH are ILLEGAL because BOTH are WRONG...