If this doesn't change your mind i don't know what will...

[oc_civic]

the percentage of crimes committed by american citizens is far greater then by illegal immigrants, thats a fact

so wouldnt it offend you if i made a thread everytime an american citizen f**ked something up like this? and then singling out everyone of them just because of a select few? Of course you would.

no.. because EVERY illegal here IS committing a crime.. further EVERY US victim is ONE CRIME that should have been stopped by the feds BEFORE it happened..

AND your "fact" is irrelevant because you cant compare numbers only percentages.. and since you have NO idea how many people ACTUALLY enter the country illegally.. there is NO way to establish the PERCENTAGE of that population that commits crime... and crime is only a FRACTION of the problems these people cause..

 

[connies96hatchie]

I've always agreed wth Anthony's points of view.

There needs to be stricter laws passed for these kinds of people. The first red flag needs to be the last.Don't f**king touch a defenseless child. I don't give a flying f**k what color you are.

If that s**t happened to my daughter and I knew about it, all bets are off that I would not put my f**king gun to that guys head and blow him the f**k away. Thieves can f**k with my car and I'll let the cops handle it. But the moment you touch my f**king kid or anyone in my family, be forewarned, I'll f**king kill you. My husband feels the same way. I no scare.

 

[vjf915]

OC's name is Anthony???? He just doesnt seem like an Anthony


On a serious note, I totally agree with you Connie. I dont give a f**k who or what someone is. Once you f**k with someone on that level, all bets are off. However, I wouldnt be as nice as you. I think I would resort to killing the person with my hands. Also if someone broke into my house, all bets are off, always felt that way. You dont know what that persons intentions are. I once had a professor for my criminal justice class, she was a Police Chief for a couple years, and an officer for 25 years. She always told us that in that situation, shoot to kill because then there is only one witness.

 

[connies96hatchie]

OC's name is Anthony???? He just doesnt seem like an Anthony


On a serious note, I totally agree with you Connie. I dont give a f**k who or what someone is. Once you f**k with someone on that level, all bets are off. However, I wouldnt be as nice as you. I think I would resort to killing the person with my hands. Also if someone broke into my house, all bets are off, always felt that way. You dont know what that persons intentions are. I once had a professor for my criminal justice class, she was a Police Chief for a couple years, and an officer for 25 years. She always told us that in that situation, shoot to kill because then there is only one witness.

Oh trust me Victor, I'm on the same page as well despite who our president is and what he passed in IL before he was in the nationwide public eye. If imma go down, it will be with flying bullets.

 

[civic209]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/11/24/illegal-immigrant-saves-9_n_73940.html


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BUE/is_9_136/ai_n17206679/

That is a whole lot of cheap labor. Without it, fruit and vegetables would rot in fields. Toddlers would be without nannies. Towels at hotels in states like Florida, Texas, and California would go unlaundered. Commuters at airports from Miami to Seattle would be stranded as taxicabs sat driverless. And home improvement projects across the Sun Belt would grind to a halt.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/CollegeAndFamily/RaiseKids/WhatIfWeThrewOutAllTheIllegalImmigrants.aspx

Ray Perryman, the president of The Perryman Group, an economic analysis firm in Waco, Texas, calculates our $14 trillion economy would suffer $652 billion in lost output -- a dramatic 4.6% slice off gross domestic product. He predicts tens of thousands of businesses would close. Robert Rector, a senior research fellow at The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank in Washington, predicts perhaps a 1% slip in GDP.

 

[vjf915]

Im not exactly sure what he did over in Illinois, but didnt it have to do with creating more restrictions on firearms, or making it harder to obtain a firearm?

And then didnt statistics prove that less firearms means more crime? Regardless, Im a strong believer that when you take guns out of the hands of citizens, there are only two people who have them......law enforcement/military, and criminals. No matter how hard people make it to obtain something, the criminals will almost always get what they want. They dont care what the laws are, thats why they are criminals.

 

[oc_civic]

in a home defense situation you shoot to stop the threat.. center mass.. till the drop... more than one if needed.. but NEVER one more than is needed..

 

[connies96hatchie]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/11/24/illegal-immigrant-saves-9_n_73940.html


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BUE/is_9_136/ai_n17206679/



http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/CollegeAndFamily/RaiseKids/WhatIfWeThrewOutAllTheIllegalImmigrants.aspx

So without cheap labor maybe our homeless would have jobs?

Im not exactly sure what he did over in Illinois, but didnt it have to do with creating more restrictions on firearms, or making it harder to obtain a firearm?

And then didnt statistics prove that less firearms means more crime? Regardless, Im a strong believer that when you take guns out of the hands of citizens, there are only two people who have them......law enforcement/military, and criminals. No matter how hard people make it to obtain something, the criminals will almost always get what they want. They dont care what the laws are, thats why they are criminals.

Apparently I need to make my statements 100% clear since no one knows what Obama stood for before he ran for office and did their research on him.

I've stated this before a few times. I'm probably wording this incorrectly. Obama voted against us using a gun as "self defense" in a plea in any murder trial case if someone broke into our homes meanwhile protecting our family.

But this is far from the thread topic. So your points of view no longer count.

in a home defense situation you shoot to stop the threat.. center mass.. till the drop... more than one if needed.. but NEVER one more than is needed..

We were told at the various shooting ranges to aim for the thighs/kneecaps.

 

[civic209]

So without cheap labor maybe our homeless would have jobs?
:

there are cheap jobs available EVERYWHERE they are homeless not because of this

 

[oc_civic]

there are cheap jobs available EVERYWHERE they are homeless not because of this

let me make it VERY simple as i have addressed this several times in the past..a LOT of our "poor" who don't work, don't work because we ALLOW it..

here is a SIMPLE recipe that will cut down TONS on government spending AND put lots of Americans to work..

deport ALL illegals...
surplus of jobs created..
END welfare....
people get hungry, and take those jobs they may have previously not considered..

in this scenario you employ the unemployed.. you deport those who are illegally here.. and cut government spending all in one swift simple move..

So without cheap labor maybe our homeless would have jobs?

you got it..

We were told at the various shooting ranges to aim for the thighs/kneecaps.

if you shoot someone in the knees you MAY cripple them for a very long time, if not forever.. you will likely have to go to court and explain why you fired.. he will be there to counter all your statements saying he didnt do this.. or didnt do that.. if someone breaks into my house i will tell them ONCE to stop and get on the ground... if they do ANYTHING but that... I will more than likely fire..an attacker can close a distance of approximately 21 feet faster than you can react... so if i say "stop get on the ground" while im pointing a 12 gauge shotgun at your chest.. and you continue to move towards me.. I am going to assume that you are out of your f**king mind, or so hopped up on drugs that you have no idea what im saying.. and i will assume you are a threat.. and i WILL shoot.. in NJ in my home I am under no obligation to retreat.. shooting a knee or leg while someone is moving.. during a high stress shooting.. YEAH.. GOOD LUCK.. whoever told you that is an idiot and has IMO never been involved in a live shooting.. our firearms instructor has had me help demonstrate reaction time during some of our tactical shooting classes.. and I draw my sidearm from my holster pretty fast.. I am not the most accurate shooter.. but i can draw and hit center mass pretty fast.. well the way it would work is this.. someone was standing at my back.. ready to run AWAY from the targets.. and i had a standard silhouette target in front of me.... sidearm holstered how it normally is in my house.. you wait.. and he yells go.. when he yells go the "attacker" would run away from me.. and i would shoot to put 2 center mass (chest).. and even with KNOWING it was about to happen the "attacker" could really cover a decent distance before i hit the target.. so imagine middle of the night inside a dark house.. someone runs at you.. you are going to try to shoot someone in the legs? that is NOT good advice IMO.. now the ONLY thing you have to be concerned about is your local laws.. in NJ in the home we are under no obligation to retreat.. we can also not "over shoot" the attacker.. meaning that if i DID hit a leg or something and he dropped.. i could not walk up and like finish him execution style.. LOL but as long as they are upright.. facing me.. moving forward.. and presenting a reasonable threat.. they are getting shot and i typically either have my Glock on my hip.. or a 12 gauge shotgun sitting next to me.. both center mass at that distance would like neutralize any target.. forever.. lol just check your local laws on home defense shooting and then you will know best.. because it DOES vary from state to state..

 

[00_Civic_Si]

if you shoot someone in the knees you MAY cripple them for a very long time, if not forever.. you will likely have to go to court and explain why you fired.. he will be there to counter all your statements saying he didnt do this.. or didnt do that.. if someone breaks into my house i will tell them ONCE to stop and get on the ground... if they do ANYTHING but that... I will more than likely fire..an attacker can close a distance of approximately 21 feet faster than you can react... so if i say "stop get on the ground" while im pointing a 12 gauge shotgun at your chest.. and you continue to move towards me.. I am going to assume that you are out of your f**king mind, or so hopped up on drugs that you have no idea what im saying.. and i will assume you are a threat.. and i WILL shoot.. in NJ in my home I am under no obligation to retreat.. shooting a knee or leg while someone is moving.. during a high stress shooting.. YEAH.. GOOD LUCK.. whoever told you that is an idiot and has IMO never been involved in a live shooting.. our firearms instructor has had me help demonstrate reaction time during some of our tactical shooting classes.. and I draw my sidearm from my holster pretty fast.. I am not the most accurate shooter.. but i can draw and hit center mass pretty fast.. well the way it would work is this.. someone was standing at my back.. ready to run AWAY from the targets.. and i had a standard silhouette target in front of me.... sidearm holstered how it normally is in my house.. you wait.. and he yells go.. when he yells go the "attacker" would run away from me.. and i would shoot to put 2 center mass (chest).. and even with KNOWING it was about to happen the "attacker" could really cover a decent distance before i hit the target.. so imagine middle of the night inside a dark house.. someone runs at you.. you are going to try to shoot someone in the legs? that is NOT good advice IMO.. now the ONLY thing you have to be concerned about is your local laws.. in NJ in the home we are under no obligation to retreat.. we can also not "over shoot" the attacker.. meaning that if i DID hit a leg or something and he dropped.. i could not walk up and like finish him execution style.. LOL but as long as they are upright.. facing me.. moving forward.. and presenting a reasonable threat.. they are getting shot and i typically either have my Glock on my hip.. or a 12 gauge shotgun sitting next to me.. both center mass at that distance would like neutralize any target.. forever.. lol just check your local laws on home defense shooting and then you will know best.. because it DOES vary from state to state..

^.

He does what I would do. I agree with what he said before though..
1. Deport all illegals.
creates jobs for the homeless, cuts goverment spending. everyones happy. Now, why doesn't the government get this? Is it really that hard?

 

[vjf915]

Also as I stated before, if you shoot to kill, there is nobody else to tell you "this didnt happen, that didnt happen". You get to tell the story. And since you cant shoot more than is needed, thats why you put as many into the COM as you can before they drop. A shotgun should do the job, even if it had buckshot in it. A pistol, depending on the caliber, 4-5 shots in the COM would normally stop an attacker.

 

[hooked_on4]

deport ALL illegals...
surplus of jobs created..
END welfare....
people get hungry, and commit crimes they may have previously not considered..

Fixed

 

[oc_civic]

Fixed

then they pay ridiculous fines (that go into the government piggy bank) and or get locked up.. either way they are not sitting in section 8 housing living it up on MY dime..

 

[hooked_on4]

Your dime doesn't go to prison?

You think these people who resort to crime to feed themselves/family can pay fines?

 

[Hecz]

It;s the black people who are on welfare, they're the ones's who are allowed be on it that. they are the ones using the system. black people ask for money, illegals make their money.

Illegals can't be on welfare because they are illegal.

Illegals pay taxes but don't get tax refunds because they are illegal.
even with fake social cards taxes will still be taken out of their checks.
that money is going to the right place.

Chicago has a huge population of immigrants, yea some might be illegal, but through out my whole life that i've lived here, they have not changed the way i live, not one bit. Even if they continue to live around me im positive they will not effect my life because i live my own life in my own world, taking care of my own business, making sure i do what i have to do to survive.

could they emit crime, sure they can, anyone can, don't have to be legal or illegal to do that. some people might have a crazy little picture in their head that legal people are perfect. lol. i hope that group of people isn't too big. i could easily be stabbed a by a methed out coked out white boy next time i got throw the trash out. as a matter of fact, my back yard neighbor does look like a meth head. anyways.

 

[oc_civic]

Your dime doesn't go to prison?

You think these people who resort to crime to feed themselves/family can pay fines?

ugh.. the situation is that if given the opportunity to work.. and you CHOOSE not to.. and then commit crime INSTEAD of working.. YES i would rather have those assholes locked up.. given the two options.. given that my dime would pay for it either way.. 1) locked up after choosing crime OVER work or 2)leaching off of the system sitting in a home free as could be.. then yeah in THOSE two situations i would rather END welfare.. give people the option to take jobs.. and YES lock them up if they choose crime.. WHY? because people like that are scumbags.. and when you take them OFF of the street and put them in jail, it cleans up neighborhoods.. plus lets face it.. not everyone on welfare would choose crime if given the option to work..

It;s the black people who are on welfare, they're the ones's who are allowed be on it that. they are the ones using the system. black people ask for money, illegals or as they have been labeled "criminals" make their money.

it is black, white, brown, yellow, etc.. people who are on welfare.. while ONE ethnic group MAY show higher numbers of welfare abuse.. I am sure there are members of ALL races abusing the welfare system.. and ALL should be off of it..

illegals can't be on welfare because they are illegal.

when i say "welfare" I am referring to the bigger picture.. not JUST government provided welfare.. I am also referring to basically any charity type organization that is distributing aid to people in need.. welfare, salvation army, soup kitchens, free medical treatment, etc.. these are ALL resources and they are resources that are created for people in need.. stretched as thinly as possible.. remove people who do not legally belong here, and that aid can be stretched so much further..

SOME Illegals pay taxes but don't get tax refunds because they are llegal.
even with fake social cards taxes will still be taken out of their checks.
that money is going to the right place.

you are right.. and while in some regards that is helpful financially it is far outweighed by the draw they create...
* use of schools, medical, etc. resources
* earning money here that is sent OUT of the country spent elsewhere
* crime
* free aid
etc..

Chicago has a huge population of immigrants, yea some might be illegal, but through out my whole life that i've lived here, they have not changed the way i live, not one bit. Even if they continue to live around me im positive they will not effect my life becuase i live my own life in my own world, taking care of my own business, making sure i do what i have to do to survive.

could they emit crime, sure they can, anyone can, don't have to be legal or illegal to do that. someone people might have a crazy little picture in their head that legal people are perfect. lol. i hope that group of people isn't too big.

the problem is they are ALL committing crime.. simply being here IS against the law..

and your determination of it being not a big deal because it has not effected you is a very narrow way of looking at it..

* having a loved one raped by an illegal immigrant..
* having your car TOTALED by an illegal with no insurance...
* losing out on a job to an illegal who will do it for half as much..

and so on.. the problem is NOT that US citizens don't commit crime.. they do.. the problem is even if illegal immigrants ONLY account for %15 of ALL the crime in America.. that is a HUGE number when you factor in that it is COMPLETELY avoidable.. these people have EVERY right to LEGALLY immigrate into the country.. they do not have ANY right to ILLEGALLY immigrate into the country.. immigration quotas exist to prevent squandering of resources.. they exist so that too many people do not come at one time.. thats why legal immigration is important..

 

[pmac193]

these people have EVERY right to LEGALLY immigrate into the country.. they do not have ANY right to ILLEGALLY immigrate into the country.. immigration quotas exist to prevent squandering of resources.. they exist so that too many people do not come at one time.. thats why legal immigration is important..

 

[nicoyita1]

ugh.. the situation is that if given the opportunity to work.. and you CHOOSE not to.. and then commit crime INSTEAD of working.. YES i would rather have those assholes locked up.. given the two options.. given that my dime would pay for it either way.. 1) locked up after choosing crime OVER work or 2)leaching off of the system sitting in a home free as could be.. then yeah in THOSE two situations i would rather END welfare.. give people the option to take jobs.. and YES lock them up if they choose crime.. WHY? because people like that are scumbags.. and when you take them OFF of the street and put them in jail, it cleans up neighborhoods.. plus lets face it.. not everyone on welfare would choose crime if given the option to work..



it is black, white, brown, yellow, etc.. people who are on welfare.. while ONE ethnic group MAY show higher numbers of welfare abuse.. I am sure there are members of ALL races abusing the welfare system.. and ALL should be off of it..




when i say "welfare" I am referring to the bigger picture.. not JUST government provided welfare.. I am also referring to basically any charity type organization that is distributing aid to people in need.. welfare, salvation army, soup kitchens, free medical treatment, etc.. these are ALL resources and they are resources that are created for people in need.. stretched as thinly as possible.. remove people who do not legally belong here, and that aid can be stretched so much further..




you are right.. and while in some regards that is helpful financially it is far outweighed by the draw they create...
* use of schools, medical, etc. resources
* earning money here that is sent OUT of the country spent elsewhere
* crime
* free aid
etc..




the problem is they are ALL committing crime.. simply being here IS against the law..

and your determination of it being not a big deal because it has not effected you is a very narrow way of looking at it..

* having a loved one raped by an illegal immigrant..
* having your car TOTALED by an illegal with no insurance...
* losing out on a job to an illegal who will do it for half as much..

and so on.. the problem is NOT that US citizens don't commit crime.. they do.. the problem is even if illegal immigrants ONLY account for %15 of ALL the crime in America.. that is a HUGE number when you factor in that it is COMPLETELY avoidable.. these people have EVERY right to LEGALLY immigrate into the country.. they do not have ANY right to ILLEGALLY immigrate into the country.. immigration quotas exist to prevent squandering of resources.. they exist so that too many people do not come at one time.. thats why legal immigration is important..

I agree with nearly every word stated above. It makes sense. We as LEGAL citizens should have priority to take advantage of the resources around us, not those who don't belong here in the first place. The only way I would be ok with illegal immigrants using our resources is if they pay for it. If they go to the hospital, they need to pay for their medical bills and be denied medicaid and free health coverage and etc etc. I don't believe ANYBODY should be denied medical care as long as they pay for it. If they don't want to pay for it, they can go back to their country of origin (where they are LEGAL) and leach off their own system. Likewise with education. America provides a few of the best colleges and universities in the world. I don't believe an illegal immigrant should be denied the opportunity to receive an education, if and only if that immigrant pays for it. If they don't want to, they can leave. Simple as that. Essentially, I guess the only problem is, as I stated before, that they use everything for free at the expense of others who deserve it but don't have the same access to those resources.

 

[oc_civic]

I agree with nearly every word stated above. It makes sense. We as LEGAL citizens should have priority to take advantage of the resources around us, not those who don't belong here in the first place. The only way I would be ok with illegal immigrants using our resources is if they pay for it. If they go to the hospital, they need to pay for their medical bills and be denied medicaid and free health coverage and etc etc. I don't believe ANYBODY should be denied medical care as long as they pay for it. If they don't want to pay for it, they can go back to their country of origin (where they are LEGAL) and leach off their own system. Likewise with education. America provides a few of the best colleges and universities in the world. I don't believe an illegal immigrant should be denied the opportunity to receive an education, if and only if that immigrant pays for it. If they don't want to, they can leave. Simple as that. Essentially, I guess the only problem is, as I stated before, that they use everything for free at the expense of others who deserve it but don't have the same access to those resources.

the only problem with illegals paying for what they use is there are still OTHER issues they bring with them.. and even if they are paying.. they are jumping line in front of others who have PROPERLY immigrated.. don't get me wrong.. if someone illegally in the country gets hit by a bus.. they should not just leave him there to die.. they should treat him enough that he is stable.. and THEN.. SEND HIM (or her) the hell back to where they came from..