to say that my takatas are useless after a 10 mph accident is silly..maybe the belts are replaced after a "major" accident.. but in regards to your question.. ive strapped myself in completely and pulled as hard as i could against the steering wheel, and didnt budge... i dont believe they stretch anywhere near enough to matter...if we are talking on a tiny unreasonable level.. then yeah.. maybe they stretch.. but as long as you are wearing them even remotely close to the correct way.. your head should come no where near the interior of the car..MySiIzFaster said:GREAT info....................
and OC, have you been in ACCIDENTS with these belts you say dont stretch? I believe thats what hes reffering to in his post.... ALL belts are made to stretch. Ive seen it, from stock belts, to aftermarket. They all stretch in moderate-severe accidents. (thats why collision places ALWAYS replace the belts)
Reference: Multipoint Harness Safety(please read if you have aftermarket belts)
- Thread starter io_303
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he he he, I think you missed part of my post...oc_civic said:
MySiIzFaster said:They all stretch in moderate-severe accidents. (thats why collision places ALWAYS replace the belts
I said in moderate-severe accidents...... I was a little vague at the end when I said ALWAYS, I meant that in context with moderate-severe accidents I mentioned in the same sentence. Collision centers will ALWAYS replace the belts in moderate to severe accidents (when the belts SHOW signs of strechting)......
how are you measuring this stretching....MySiIzFaster said:he he he, I think you missed part of my post...
I said in moderate-severe accidents...... I was a little vague at the end when I said ALWAYS, I meant that in context with moderate-severe accidents I mentioned in the same sentence. Collision centers will ALWAYS replace the belts in moderate to severe accidents (when the belts SHOW signs of strechting)......
I have no idea. I just know its an industry truth.....I dont know the parameters as far as "if it stretches 3mm from original length it needs replaced" I just know the effectiveness of the belt is comprimised by the stretching of the belts in moderate-severe accidents...oc_civic said:
Physics? The properties of the material the belt is made of? etc..etcIve seen stretching on belts when people crashed me (I have never been in an accident when I was driving BTW). My buddy drove me into a tree head on at 40mph, you could just LOOK at the pattern of the weave on the belt and KNOW it was fooked up. All distorted and sheet. Same on a telephone pole head on at 25mph, stretching at the pressure points (shoulder/hips)... replaced them in BOTH cars.
Minor accidents your are correct, they more likely than not dont need replaced. That issue is not up for debate as I agree.
i can appreciate what you are saying.. but ive also seen tow straps made out of similar material... that have pulled 3000lb trucks ou of the mud.. reused a million times... now im not saying you are wrong.. about the whoel accident thing.. but id like to know what actually happens..MySiIzFaster said:I have no idea. I just know its an industry truth.....I dont know the parameters as far as "if it stretches 3mm from original length it needs replaced" I just know the effectiveness of the belt is comprimised by the stretching of the belts in moderate-severe accidents...
Ive seen stretching on belts when people crashed me (I have never been in an accident when I was driving BTW). My buddy drove me into a tree head on at 40mph, you could just LOOK at the pattern of the weave on the belt and KNOW it was fooked up. All distorted and sheet. Same on a telephone pole head on at 25mph, stretching at the pressure points (shoulder/hips)... replaced them in BOTH cars.
Minor accidents your are correct, they more likely than not dont need replaced. That issue is not up for debate as I agree.
The material is made to give. As IO said, it 'cushions the impact' by strecthing. If you use them again, your impact will be more severe b/c there is less 'give' in the belt. Im not saying the CANT be used again, but they shouldnt be as they are not as effective in doing there job if they are stretched and distorted. Hence why they are normally replaced. Having knowledge in Physics helps my explanation too. The laws and properties of the material play a HUGE role in my points.oc_civic said:
You and your analogies... lol
You arent using those straps in the same way as your seatbelts are used (you are pulling against the WHOLE LENGTH of the strap(s) so there really isnt any pressure/weak points except for the ends of the straps (inherent weak point). A seatbelt you are putting an extreme amount of pressure on small areas of the belt, NOT across the whole length in your example..
I.e.. you can break a toothpick in half right? right. Can you pull it apart from end to end? Not likely. Same concept of your analogy really. Let me make it clear I am NOT saying the seatbelt will break.
MySiIzFaster said:
he is right.. and i am wrong.. they do stretch.. but there is one SMALL catch.. its not so much that they wont stop you in any subsequent accident.. its just that it may be harder.. in otherwords.. the stretch as pointed out si meant to absurb some of the impact.. as you both pointed out.. but to say that they need to be replaced is a little bit of an exageration.. they should still hold you off the steering colum etc... it just may be more harsh on you... but yeah they actually do stretch.. so again i was wrong...
Any idea how much a 4 or 6 point cage weighs you down? Are custom cages heavier then pre-fabricated?
Kick ass thread btw, I never thought about the harness w/o the cage aspect.
Kick ass thread btw, I never thought about the harness w/o the cage aspect.
Its not an exageration. If a seatbelt has stretch marks (ha ha ha) it needs to be replaced. The potential for it to break and injury to the driver is MUCH GREATER when the integrity of its original design has been comprimised. Again, why collision centers replace them b/c its a liability. If it wasnt a liability they wouldnt replace it. Will it "break", doubtful for sure. Should it be replaced, FOR SURE. If youve seen a stretched seatbelt it still has the FORM of the body part that stretched it (shoulder for example) the seatbelt will not lay flat anymore b/c the materials' original state has been comprimised thus rendering it less effective.oc_civic said:he is right.. and i am wrong.. they do stretch.. but there is one SMALL catch.. its not so much that they wont stop you in any subsequent accident.. its just that it may be harder.. in otherwords.. the stretch as pointed out si meant to absurb some of the impact.. as you both pointed out.. but to say that they need to be replaced is a little bit of an exageration.. they should still hold you off the steering colum etc... it just may be more harsh on you... but yeah they actually do stretch.. so again i was wrong...
I hate the internet. Point of clarity: I never suggested they wouldnt stop you if you dont get them replaced....I thought that was a given.
i just realized.. we are talking about two TOTALLY different things.. severe accident this.. bad accident that.. if the seatbelts are so f**ked up that you can see the the shoulder marks then yeah definately replace them.. lol maybe you missed the part where i said i was wrong.. and they DO stretch.. im just saying that if they are not visually f**ked up you could reuse them... theres obviously a huge difference between them being so screwed up that you can see huge marks where the shoulders were.. and there being no visual signs of wear..MySiIzFaster said:Its not an exageration. If a seatbelt has stretch marks (ha ha ha) it needs to be replaced. The potential for it to break and injury to the driver is MUCH GREATER when the integrity of its original design has been comprimised. Again, why collision centers replace them b/c its a liability. If it wasnt a liability they wouldnt replace it. Will it "break", doubtful for sure. Should it be replaced, FOR SURE. If youve seen a stretched seatbelt it still has the FORM of the body part that stretched it (shoulder for example) the seatbelt will not lay flat anymore b/c the materials' original state has been comprimised thus rendering it less effective.
I was pretty clear the whole way through I thought. Thats what I said, if there are marks, then they need replaced. You see stretch marks in moderate to severe accidents.oc_civic said:
What I have in BOLD clearly states that....... :wink:MySiIzFaster said:
vague words bother me... "moderate to severe" im sure there are instances where the accident itself is "moderate to severe" but due to the way the cars hit, the belts may not need to be replaced.. like getting hit from behind JUST AN EXAMPLE.. i do howevere understand the point.. if the belts are f**ked up replace them.. that obviously makes sense.. but again i totally admit i did NOT know that they stretched..MySiIzFaster said:I was pretty clear the whole way through I thought. Thats what I said, if there are marks, then they need replaced. You see stretch marks in moderate to severe accidents.
hooked_on4 said:Any idea how much a 4 or 6 point cage weighs you down? Are custom cages heavier then pre-fabricated?
Kick ass thread btw, I never thought about the harness w/o the cage aspect.
anyone?
and are we done w/the stretch arguement yet?