"The Mothership" - 1998 Civic - Maintenance Log
- Thread starter ctag
- Start date
Still slowly working on my workspace. I just went full time at work, so maybe things will move a little faster later this spring 
I'm borrowing a jack, engine lift, engine stand, and air compressor from a friend, not sure how long they'll be able to stay here, but at least I've got more than enough tools for replacing the clutch
I also got a sidewall kit for the carport tent, it adequate at staving off cold winds.
I'm borrowing a jack, engine lift, engine stand, and air compressor from a friend, not sure how long they'll be able to stay here, but at least I've got more than enough tools for replacing the clutch
I also got a sidewall kit for the carport tent, it adequate at staving off cold winds.
Ok, well the tools need to be returned in about a week, and the weather this weekend was amazing, so I went ahead with replacing the clutch and flywheel.
This has been a long time in the works:
Back when I bought the car, I noticed a few annoying sounds that I thought (maybe because the original owner told me, I don't remember) was "the synchros going bad". A quick description of the two sounds: A "shu-shu-shu" whirring while the car is idling and the clutch is engaged (it stops when the peddle is down), and a "vrrr-RRRR!" rattling/vibrating sound during midrange RPMs. Neither sound developed or got worse over the past five years of college, and so I forgot about them until I owned a Del Sol for a short while last year. Driving that (and listening to it) made me start paying attention to my civic again, and I re-evaluated that the noises were both the result of a failing clutch throwout bearing. This weekend's endeavor was to learn if the sounds were actually caused by the clutch or not.
The whole job was really rushed, so I didn't take many pictures at all, but it all came together before the end of the three day weekend, which was nice.
Start moving stuff out of the way of the transmission:
I made some temporary brackets to hold an LED tube, and it was a game changer, so much light
Had a friend come over and help with the actual transmission removal, lowering, clutch replacement, and reinstallation.
We definitely half-assed the "support transmission while lowering" part:
The old clutch pressure plate, unfortunately I don't have a better picture, but the teeth have nice grooves worn in them:
Transmission out, apparently the clutch dust is toxic?
That's the last of the pictures
The new clutch went in pretty well, but the end result is that neither of the noises are gone (I now definitely suspect the transmission), and the clutch pedal is SO SMOOTH. Seriously, I thought it was broken at first, because there was so little resistance in the pedal's action.
A few closing notes:
- I tried finding where in the shift linkage all of the slop is coming from. The lever will move ~1.5" back and forth while in gear, which is a lot compared to the Del Sol's. I didn't find anything, so it looks like the wiggle is coming from inside the transmission
- I stripped the bolts that go into the engine on the engine-transmission stiffening mounts
They'll need to be helicoiled next time this thing is apart.
- If the flywheel dust cover is back in place before reinstalling the transmission, the engine-transmission stiffening mounts can be left on. Otherwise, they have to come off, and so does the exhaust pipe.
- The MTF was just changed a few months ago, and I didn't want to needlessly waste it, so I didn't drain the transmission. Some MTF spilled out of the CV axle openings during the whole operation, but not a whole lot, and I was able to top if off once the transmission was back in.
- I COULD NOT get the shift linkage's b***h pin out. We ended up giving up and just removing the other side of the linkage. While reinstalling the transmission it's really important to make sure the two rods in the linkage aren't crossed, because it's a huge pain to fix once the transmission is bolted back in place.
This has been a long time in the works:
Back when I bought the car, I noticed a few annoying sounds that I thought (maybe because the original owner told me, I don't remember) was "the synchros going bad". A quick description of the two sounds: A "shu-shu-shu" whirring while the car is idling and the clutch is engaged (it stops when the peddle is down), and a "vrrr-RRRR!" rattling/vibrating sound during midrange RPMs. Neither sound developed or got worse over the past five years of college, and so I forgot about them until I owned a Del Sol for a short while last year. Driving that (and listening to it) made me start paying attention to my civic again, and I re-evaluated that the noises were both the result of a failing clutch throwout bearing. This weekend's endeavor was to learn if the sounds were actually caused by the clutch or not.
The whole job was really rushed, so I didn't take many pictures at all, but it all came together before the end of the three day weekend, which was nice.
Start moving stuff out of the way of the transmission:
I made some temporary brackets to hold an LED tube, and it was a game changer, so much light
Had a friend come over and help with the actual transmission removal, lowering, clutch replacement, and reinstallation.
We definitely half-assed the "support transmission while lowering" part:
The old clutch pressure plate, unfortunately I don't have a better picture, but the teeth have nice grooves worn in them:
Transmission out, apparently the clutch dust is toxic?
That's the last of the pictures
The new clutch went in pretty well, but the end result is that neither of the noises are gone (I now definitely suspect the transmission), and the clutch pedal is SO SMOOTH. Seriously, I thought it was broken at first, because there was so little resistance in the pedal's action.A few closing notes:
- I tried finding where in the shift linkage all of the slop is coming from. The lever will move ~1.5" back and forth while in gear, which is a lot compared to the Del Sol's. I didn't find anything, so it looks like the wiggle is coming from inside the transmission
- I stripped the bolts that go into the engine on the engine-transmission stiffening mounts
They'll need to be helicoiled next time this thing is apart.- If the flywheel dust cover is back in place before reinstalling the transmission, the engine-transmission stiffening mounts can be left on. Otherwise, they have to come off, and so does the exhaust pipe.
- The MTF was just changed a few months ago, and I didn't want to needlessly waste it, so I didn't drain the transmission. Some MTF spilled out of the CV axle openings during the whole operation, but not a whole lot, and I was able to top if off once the transmission was back in.
- I COULD NOT get the shift linkage's b***h pin out. We ended up giving up and just removing the other side of the linkage. While reinstalling the transmission it's really important to make sure the two rods in the linkage aren't crossed, because it's a huge pain to fix once the transmission is bolted back in place.
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Writing isn't my thing, I usually make something and then come back later and think it sounds dumb and delete it. Anyways, actual car talk is below the image.
I vaguely remember the week I got The Mothership -- this car. I was a highschool student, the worst storm in decades had just hit, and we were beginning a week without electricity. Luckily my new ride was stranded inside an automotive shop for an inspection and thus was spared from hail and tree limbs. Once the roads were clear we got the car home, and then I wasn't allowed to drive it until my dad sorted out insurance. I spent the next few days climbing around and trying to get a hang of what all goes into a Honda to make it move; I spent a lot of time out there charging my cellphone too
There was something special about ownership that just fascinated me. I was responsible for this thing now (though my parents helped out a lot the first year) and it would only be as reliable and fun as the work and money I put into it.
I still get that feeling sometimes when I go out and start my car, a shot of exhilaration that my day is looking up. Having something like that has been indispensable during college. When bad classes became haywire semesters and bad semesters became a disgusting and unfulfilling academic experience, I could always just take refuge in the occasional scenic drive. It helped a lot. This civic has been one of the few constants over the past couple of years, it's never let me down unless I did something wrong and asked for it. I feel quite fortunate that The Mothership kept running with the meager TLC I occasionally provide, but now it's time to step up and really deliver the maintenance I've been promising myself is coming.
I brought this transmission home from a craigslist deal today for $100. It's supposedly an S40 from a 1997 DX; has been sitting for two years but was in good running condition before that. It looks like this replacement is pretty similarly geared, though I just intend to use it temporarily, so who cares.
My plan is to drop it into The Mothership and then take my time and properly rebuild the original transmission. I'm certainly capable of scrubbing it down and doing the swap, but I'd like some help figuring out if there's anything I should replace or inspect ahead of time like axle seals or cracking the case to have a peek. Thoughts?
I vaguely remember the week I got The Mothership -- this car. I was a highschool student, the worst storm in decades had just hit, and we were beginning a week without electricity. Luckily my new ride was stranded inside an automotive shop for an inspection and thus was spared from hail and tree limbs. Once the roads were clear we got the car home, and then I wasn't allowed to drive it until my dad sorted out insurance. I spent the next few days climbing around and trying to get a hang of what all goes into a Honda to make it move; I spent a lot of time out there charging my cellphone too
There was something special about ownership that just fascinated me. I was responsible for this thing now (though my parents helped out a lot the first year) and it would only be as reliable and fun as the work and money I put into it.I still get that feeling sometimes when I go out and start my car, a shot of exhilaration that my day is looking up. Having something like that has been indispensable during college. When bad classes became haywire semesters and bad semesters became a disgusting and unfulfilling academic experience, I could always just take refuge in the occasional scenic drive. It helped a lot. This civic has been one of the few constants over the past couple of years, it's never let me down unless I did something wrong and asked for it. I feel quite fortunate that The Mothership kept running with the meager TLC I occasionally provide, but now it's time to step up and really deliver the maintenance I've been promising myself is coming.
I brought this transmission home from a craigslist deal today for $100. It's supposedly an S40 from a 1997 DX; has been sitting for two years but was in good running condition before that. It looks like this replacement is pretty similarly geared, though I just intend to use it temporarily, so who cares.
My plan is to drop it into The Mothership and then take my time and properly rebuild the original transmission. I'm certainly capable of scrubbing it down and doing the swap, but I'd like some help figuring out if there's anything I should replace or inspect ahead of time like axle seals or cracking the case to have a peek. Thoughts?
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Got the transmission up on a table and started de-griming it.
I'm still thinking about how best to go about this. I can see some dust and metal shavings inside the transmission... I'm thinking of a flush with regular motor oil to get it mostly cleaned out. I guess the decision comes down to whether I should drive it around on the motor oil (higher rpms) or seal and fill it as is and turn the input shaft with a drill..
I decided against pulling the transmission apart to inspect it. Instead I used a screwdriver on the shift linkage to step through most of the gears. It seems really crisp, and all of the gears I tried (1,2,5,R) seemed to mesh and turn without any grinding or anything. Hopefully everything's good internally.
I'm still thinking about how best to go about this. I can see some dust and metal shavings inside the transmission... I'm thinking of a flush with regular motor oil to get it mostly cleaned out. I guess the decision comes down to whether I should drive it around on the motor oil (higher rpms) or seal and fill it as is and turn the input shaft with a drill..
I decided against pulling the transmission apart to inspect it. Instead I used a screwdriver on the shift linkage to step through most of the gears. It seems really crisp, and all of the gears I tried (1,2,5,R) seemed to mesh and turn without any grinding or anything. Hopefully everything's good internally.
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Well, the new transmission is installed. Also, I'm an idiot.
Started yesterday morning at 8am.
Got the bits from the new transmission cleaned up.
The operating room.
Got the car up on stands and ready to be worked on.
Air intake out.
MT oil drained.
Wheels off.
Axle nuts off.
Axles out.
Starter removed.
Clutch slave removed.
So far so good.
Google likes making my image links gargantuan, which brings my posts to hit the character limit pretty fast. This transmission swap is spread out over the next few posts.
Started yesterday morning at 8am.
Got the bits from the new transmission cleaned up.
The operating room.
Got the car up on stands and ready to be worked on.
Air intake out.
MT oil drained.
Wheels off.
Axle nuts off.
Axles out.
Starter removed.
Clutch slave removed.
So far so good.
Google likes making my image links gargantuan, which brings my posts to hit the character limit pretty fast. This transmission swap is spread out over the next few posts.
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Shift linkage removed from the other side because the spring pin wouldn't budge.
Engine stiffener and dust cover bolts.
Engine supported.
Transmission mounts removed.
Boom, nice!
Wound up having to hammer on it, but the pin did come out..
Bolts were all carefully organized. No guessing this time.
Everything is going so smoothly! Removing the original MT only took about 4 hours, and I was ready to have the new one in and ready to go in 4 more. Here's the new transmission being hooked up to the shift linkage.
Engine stiffener and dust cover bolts.
Engine supported.
Transmission mounts removed.
Boom, nice!
Wound up having to hammer on it, but the pin did come out..
Bolts were all carefully organized. No guessing this time.
Everything is going so smoothly! Removing the original MT only took about 4 hours, and I was ready to have the new one in and ready to go in 4 more. Here's the new transmission being hooked up to the shift linkage.
Used a jack to lift it into the engine bay.
It doesn't line up
I get tired and bring in the big guns.
It still doesn't line up
I try adjusting the way it's hanging to reduce the amount of effort it takes to twist the MT level and line up the input shaft.
Won't line up. I'm scratching the pressure plate and worried I'll accidentally budge the clutch out of alignment.
Double check that the clutch is aligned properly. It is.
Three hours into trying to install this MT, and I realize that it has an alignment dowel that's also in the engine! No wonder it wouldn't line up.
I have trouble getting the MT back up into the engine bay.
Removed the front MT mount.
I tried using the floor jack to lift the MT up and then wrestle it into place, and I've tried using the engine crane to hold the transmission up while I orient it. Nothing's worked. Then I tried adjusting how high the engine was being held up by the second jack, and that doesn't seem to help either. Now I'm exhausted, I've been working to get this transmission to line up for SEVEN HOURS, twice as long as it took to get the old one out. Unlike the clutch replacement we did a month ago, my mechanic friend isn't around to save my sorry ass, and I've already thrown my hands up several times and given up just to walk back out after searching for tips online.
I crawl back under the engine lift, try one more time, and it pops into place.
That's the end of the pictures. I throw everything back together, and am finally ready to test drive around 11pm, 15 hours after starting this project.
My mechanic friend gets off work and drops by, we fire up the engine and.... The transmission releases a demonic scream of shrieking, churning metal.
All that work, and this replacement MT is more broke than the one I just removed.
The car drives, but it sounds like death. I've incrementally flushed 10qt of 10-w30 engine oil through it just to clear out debris. The first flush came out black with metal shards, the second had a lot of metal dust, the rest had pretty clean oil drain out. After the flushing the noise is a little bit lessened, but still present.
Now I'm stuck with it for at least a few days until my arms heal enough to try lifting a transmission again.
It doesn't line up
I get tired and bring in the big guns.
It still doesn't line up
I try adjusting the way it's hanging to reduce the amount of effort it takes to twist the MT level and line up the input shaft.
Won't line up. I'm scratching the pressure plate and worried I'll accidentally budge the clutch out of alignment.
Double check that the clutch is aligned properly. It is.
Three hours into trying to install this MT, and I realize that it has an alignment dowel that's also in the engine! No wonder it wouldn't line up.
I have trouble getting the MT back up into the engine bay.
Removed the front MT mount.
I tried using the floor jack to lift the MT up and then wrestle it into place, and I've tried using the engine crane to hold the transmission up while I orient it. Nothing's worked. Then I tried adjusting how high the engine was being held up by the second jack, and that doesn't seem to help either. Now I'm exhausted, I've been working to get this transmission to line up for SEVEN HOURS, twice as long as it took to get the old one out. Unlike the clutch replacement we did a month ago, my mechanic friend isn't around to save my sorry ass, and I've already thrown my hands up several times and given up just to walk back out after searching for tips online.
I crawl back under the engine lift, try one more time, and it pops into place.
That's the end of the pictures. I throw everything back together, and am finally ready to test drive around 11pm, 15 hours after starting this project.
My mechanic friend gets off work and drops by, we fire up the engine and.... The transmission releases a demonic scream of shrieking, churning metal.
All that work, and this replacement MT is more broke than the one I just removed.The car drives, but it sounds like death. I've incrementally flushed 10qt of 10-w30 engine oil through it just to clear out debris. The first flush came out black with metal shards, the second had a lot of metal dust, the rest had pretty clean oil drain out. After the flushing the noise is a little bit lessened, but still present.
Now I'm stuck with it for at least a few days until my arms heal enough to try lifting a transmission again.
The temp MT is still holding. I even used the interstate going home last night and it actually drove alright.. I still haven't torqued everything down, but now I'm not sure when I'll get around to it.
I think I'm going to go ahead with the rebuild on my original MT. I found a friend who's done this before and he's offered to let me use his tools and knowledge, so things are looking good there.
I need to double check, but it looks like I likely have an S40 b000 transmission. The s40 means that the shift fork is steel, and the b000 means that the bearings are larger?
This appears to be the rebuild kit to get. I'll be able to afford it in about a month.
I'm looking into how I can clean up the transmission housing and bolts. We have a parts cleaner at the shop that needs repairs, then I can use it on the separated sides of the transmission, and I can try some home cleaning methods (vinegar and a hotplate) for the bolts to see what works.
It looks like I'd need to get the bolts re-plated if the cleaning method removes oxides, because otherwise they'll rust... I might try doing the zinc plating myself, since there are some good tutorials online.
I think I'm going to go ahead with the rebuild on my original MT. I found a friend who's done this before and he's offered to let me use his tools and knowledge, so things are looking good there.
I need to double check, but it looks like I likely have an S40 b000 transmission. The s40 means that the shift fork is steel, and the b000 means that the bearings are larger?
This appears to be the rebuild kit to get. I'll be able to afford it in about a month.
I'm looking into how I can clean up the transmission housing and bolts. We have a parts cleaner at the shop that needs repairs, then I can use it on the separated sides of the transmission, and I can try some home cleaning methods (vinegar and a hotplate) for the bolts to see what works.
It looks like I'd need to get the bolts re-plated if the cleaning method removes oxides, because otherwise they'll rust... I might try doing the zinc plating myself, since there are some good tutorials online.
Yeah. I started the engine, slowly let off the clutch, and as soon as I heard the noise I just cut the engine and sat there for a while. I wasn't really surprised considering what a gamble a non-rebuilt craigslist find like this is, but it was still frustrating.
I've got like a gallon of purple power and simple green standing by
I may actually be going crazy though, because I just did a test run of cleaning a leftover bolt via vinegar bath. When it came out all of the grime just fell off, but the vinegar also removed the zinc dichromate plating on the bolt, and it rusted. So now I'm looking into homemade zinc electroplating so I can electroplate all of the bolts and make them impervious to rust again... Definitely interested in people's thoughts on this, I'll post pictures once I've tried the electroplating process.Thanks @Tambini
Thanks
Let me know when your build thread is up Ok, so I'm actually pursuing electroplating, if anything just because it might be fun
Here's the sample bolt:
First, the bolt soaks in a vinegar bath for 24 hours. All of the crud just dissolves, but so does the Zinc Dichromate (I think) plating that used to protect the bolt from rusting. Now I need to replace the old plating with new Zinc plating.
To do that, I'm starting with the simplest home recipe I could find online:
* 6 cups of water
* 6 cups of vinegar (acetic acid 5%)
* 6 tablespoons of Epsom salt
* 6 tablespoons of table sugar
Let it all dissolve (I'm using an old crock pot):
Get some Zinc shavings:
Let the Zinc dissolve for about 24 hours:
I did all of that over the weekend. This morning the zinc shavings were almost entirely dissolved into the vinegar acid bath, next step is to try plating a part and see if it works!
I've been walking around with a re-plated washer on my keychain, and it hasn't held up well:
So, as much fun as it was, I'm shelving plans to electroplate car parts. I'll just scrub everything down and go from there with rebuilding the transmission.
Speaking of which, I still haven't ordered any parts, but I got the transmission cracked open to take a peek and start cleaning.
I'm using this manual, since I cannot find site to buy one from: http://www.clubcivic.com/forum/threads/96-00-service-manual-free-to-anyone.176563/
The setup:
Took off the hanger and bearing-spring bolts:
Opened the port to the snap-ring:
Unbolted the case, following the recommended zig-zag pattern:
I'm trying to do this as methodologically as possible:
Got the case cracked... And then it seized and wouldn't separate Called a friend over to help, and we determined that one of the aligning dowels was rusted and stuck. A couple hours of carefully prying on the two halves and they finally came apart:
There it is!
So, as much fun as it was, I'm shelving plans to electroplate car parts. I'll just scrub everything down and go from there with rebuilding the transmission.
Speaking of which, I still haven't ordered any parts, but I got the transmission cracked open to take a peek and start cleaning.
I'm using this manual, since I cannot find site to buy one from: http://www.clubcivic.com/forum/threads/96-00-service-manual-free-to-anyone.176563/
The setup:
Took off the hanger and bearing-spring bolts:
Opened the port to the snap-ring:
Unbolted the case, following the recommended zig-zag pattern:
I'm trying to do this as methodologically as possible:
Got the case cracked... And then it seized and wouldn't separate
Called a friend over to help, and we determined that one of the aligning dowels was rusted and stuck. A couple hours of carefully prying on the two halves and they finally came apart:
There it is!
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Measured the reverse fork pin: ~0.203mm, which is within the 0.5mm service limit.
Then I measured the reverse gear and fork clearance: ~0.660mm, which is within the 1.8mm service limit:
After that I removed the reverse fork and gear, baggied them and called it a good day.
I noticed that two of the forks have strange coloring, see where the ends are bright white metal?
What's going on there? I suspect it has something to do with the fragility of these forks that people complain about?
With the case apart, I can hear some "scratchy" noise from the top of the countershaft while the input splines are turned by hand.. I'm pretty sure that's what made the bad sound while I was driving on this transmission, but I can't pinpoint what exactly is causing it.
Also, most of the gears have some amount of notching and wear... Can anyone help me determine what level of wear that is (light, heavy) and whether it's worth investigating replacement gears as well?
Then I measured the reverse gear and fork clearance: ~0.660mm, which is within the 1.8mm service limit:
After that I removed the reverse fork and gear, baggied them and called it a good day.
I noticed that two of the forks have strange coloring, see where the ends are bright white metal?
What's going on there? I suspect it has something to do with the fragility of these forks that people complain about?
With the case apart, I can hear some "scratchy" noise from the top of the countershaft while the input splines are turned by hand.. I'm pretty sure that's what made the bad sound while I was driving on this transmission, but I can't pinpoint what exactly is causing it.
Also, most of the gears have some amount of notching and wear... Can anyone help me determine what level of wear that is (light, heavy) and whether it's worth investigating replacement gears as well?
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XpL0d3r
I had a Civic once.
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I can't really help with the transmission issues, and this may be the same as to what you're using now for a service manual, but I figured I'd throw it out there:
http://www.clubcivic.com/forum/threads/96-00-civic-searchable-service-manual-and-electrical-troubleshooting-manual.232049/
Keep us posted on the progress!
http://www.clubcivic.com/forum/threads/96-00-civic-searchable-service-manual-and-electrical-troubleshooting-manual.232049/
Keep us posted on the progress!
Awesome, I've got it downloaded. Thanks!I can't really help with the transmission issues, and this may be the same as to what you're using now for a service manual, but I figured I'd throw it out there:
http://www.clubcivic.com/forum/threads/96-00-civic-searchable-service-manual-and-electrical-troubleshooting-manual.232049/
Keep us posted on the progress!
I've been trying to do my own research ahead of time too. It looks like Synchrotech parts are A+ now, whereas they had some design and fabrication issues on the carbon synchros back in the late 2000's. This car is my daily driver, and gets babied like crazy, but I'm still eyeing the carbon synchros for this rebuild... It's probably the effect of whatever mental bias prefers expensive things because they "must be better".
This is the Synchrotech kit I'm looking at: http://shop.synchrotech-transmissions.com/Carbon-Master-Kit-96-00-S40-40mm-MK-SYN111-D16S40.htm
Along with a rebuild kit, I think I'll also need:
- Replacement crush washers (dealer?)
- Hondabond / Permatex Grey
- New set-bearing springs (if the old ones are out of spec, haven't checked)
- MTF (already have)
- Shift linkage rebuild kit/bushings
- I was planning on replacing the forks... But the old ones look fine, I'll see if there's a tolerance check to run on them in the service manual.
- Slide hammer and bearing puller (don't own those tools yet)
- Hydraulic press?
I'm pretty worried about damaging something while doing this rebuild, and then having the whole transmission fail a while after putting it back in the civic. We'll see how it goes, having a service manual certainly helps..