my plan is to do a custom setup. I am reading up on a lot of FI stuff. For any turbo questions I will refer you to here... www.turbod16.com (my turbo bible)
Turbo or supercharger?
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my plan is to do a custom setup. I am reading up on a lot of FI stuff. For any turbo questions I will refer you to here... www.turbod16.com (my turbo bible)
yes superchargers will likely be more that turbo's but you can get a vortech aftercooled kit for under 3500 new if you look around....im pretty sure the aftercooled kit could do 25 psi as well......but i agree dollar for dollar the turbo would be a better deal....but how many people do you know with turbos vs superchargers
Another thing people never seem to factor in cost wise in putting that s**t in your car. I don't know about you but I am not a mechanic so I have to pay. Then there is tuning. Then if you don't have a extra car. Rental car fees. Then the when s**t goes wrong fund. A fault BOV spring and that will end your day quick.
Ok....i'm not THE turbo expert, but if anyone here has heard of Corky Bell raise your hand!
Seems like the 20bucks i spent on Maximum Boost down at Books-A-Billion brought me up to speed pretty well on turbos and superchargers. I'd suggest reading it three times before attempting any remotely related to turbos or forced induction!
Do i have a custom one-off forced induction machine? Yup, its a 1980 motorcycle. It'll knock your socks off. I think i spent like 50bucks on it too. Just goes to show what a decent amount of understanding does, versus drooling over the import mags and their shiny kits for a few grand or so.
Also, not raggin on anyone here, but turbos arent free! All of those who want to think of superchargers as power-sapping devices listen up! NOTHING is free in life, energy cannot be created or destroyed, its one of the most basic principles of physics. It only changes form. Example: clap your hands and you hear a sound and your hands are hot. The force of slapping skin together and stopping it is transferred into sound and heat energy. Ok, that was an oddball example, i'll give ya that one! Now lets talk cars:
The exhaust gas is pushed out of the cylinders by the piston on it's upstroke. There is some help of the hot gasses expanding and seeing an open path to the tailpipe. It screams out, like a baby being born. But, it still pushes against the piston, and the piston has to push it back out, and the other pistons are turning the crank trying the push that piston 'up' so it's exhaust stroke can be finished. Action and reaction, yet another physics law. Hmm...perhaps that stuff was important back in grade school, highschool, and perhaps college. Just like someone on rollerskates pushing on someone with regular shoes, the shoes are the piston and the skates represents the spent gasses trying to exit the cylinder. The 'shoes' have to be rigid or push somewhat, or else theyd simply roll-away like another pair of skates!
We all know that less-restrictive exhaust systems are best, right? Well, a turbo is a HUGE restriction. Try blowing on a toy windmill really hard or trying to turn a house fan by blowing on it. Thats not even close to what the exhaust has to do! It takes on average about 15hp to do forced induction on a small honda motor BLOWN OR TURBO'D. The larger 'big-boy' street rods and muscle cars can use a few hundred depending on boost. Horsepower is horsepower, its either going through a belt or the piston.
Another 'downside' of turbos is the inherent detonation problem. Why? The cylinders have exhaust gasses in them longer and the manifold supplying the turbo is quite hot, which transfers heat back to the cylinder, which can create 'hot-spots' and a generally hotter chamber, the two enemies of a non-detonating motor. The blown motors usually can blow some intake charge out the exhaust valves and wash any old, hot gasses out with it. This cools the chamber and allows a denser charge with less chance of detonation. All of this is dependant of cam timing, overlap, etc. True, some of the charge is 'lost' out the non-restrictive tail pipe, but is that really of consequence? A denser, more stable charge is what we are after, right? Intercoolers, water-injection, and engine management systems are all trying to get a decent amount of charge in there and ignite it with confidence.
So, get a copy of Maximum Boost, Street Supercharging, and Turbochargers from any bookstore or shop online for them. Happy forced induction reading!
Seems like the 20bucks i spent on Maximum Boost down at Books-A-Billion brought me up to speed pretty well on turbos and superchargers. I'd suggest reading it three times before attempting any remotely related to turbos or forced induction!
Do i have a custom one-off forced induction machine? Yup, its a 1980 motorcycle. It'll knock your socks off. I think i spent like 50bucks on it too. Just goes to show what a decent amount of understanding does, versus drooling over the import mags and their shiny kits for a few grand or so.
Also, not raggin on anyone here, but turbos arent free! All of those who want to think of superchargers as power-sapping devices listen up! NOTHING is free in life, energy cannot be created or destroyed, its one of the most basic principles of physics. It only changes form. Example: clap your hands and you hear a sound and your hands are hot. The force of slapping skin together and stopping it is transferred into sound and heat energy. Ok, that was an oddball example, i'll give ya that one! Now lets talk cars:
The exhaust gas is pushed out of the cylinders by the piston on it's upstroke. There is some help of the hot gasses expanding and seeing an open path to the tailpipe. It screams out, like a baby being born. But, it still pushes against the piston, and the piston has to push it back out, and the other pistons are turning the crank trying the push that piston 'up' so it's exhaust stroke can be finished. Action and reaction, yet another physics law. Hmm...perhaps that stuff was important back in grade school, highschool, and perhaps college. Just like someone on rollerskates pushing on someone with regular shoes, the shoes are the piston and the skates represents the spent gasses trying to exit the cylinder. The 'shoes' have to be rigid or push somewhat, or else theyd simply roll-away like another pair of skates!
We all know that less-restrictive exhaust systems are best, right? Well, a turbo is a HUGE restriction. Try blowing on a toy windmill really hard or trying to turn a house fan by blowing on it. Thats not even close to what the exhaust has to do! It takes on average about 15hp to do forced induction on a small honda motor BLOWN OR TURBO'D. The larger 'big-boy' street rods and muscle cars can use a few hundred depending on boost. Horsepower is horsepower, its either going through a belt or the piston.
Another 'downside' of turbos is the inherent detonation problem. Why? The cylinders have exhaust gasses in them longer and the manifold supplying the turbo is quite hot, which transfers heat back to the cylinder, which can create 'hot-spots' and a generally hotter chamber, the two enemies of a non-detonating motor. The blown motors usually can blow some intake charge out the exhaust valves and wash any old, hot gasses out with it. This cools the chamber and allows a denser charge with less chance of detonation. All of this is dependant of cam timing, overlap, etc. True, some of the charge is 'lost' out the non-restrictive tail pipe, but is that really of consequence? A denser, more stable charge is what we are after, right? Intercoolers, water-injection, and engine management systems are all trying to get a decent amount of charge in there and ignite it with confidence.
So, get a copy of Maximum Boost, Street Supercharging, and Turbochargers from any bookstore or shop online for them. Happy forced induction reading!
so you went out and spent 20 bucks on a book...then now you are against it?? sounds like you dont support either....which are you for??? ok, mr turbo man, what do you suggest, what do you think, what wasnt read in a book then simply typed on here??? i dont get what you are trying to say here....its like you are for turbo then against it....
SeanMc300 wrote:
"so you went out and spent 20 bucks on a book...then now you are against it?? sounds like you dont support either....which are you for???"
Well, i thought you were smarter than that! I didnt just buy a book, read it, and re-type it all here and claim to be mr turbo. that would be a free way to become a turbo expert on the net, hell i'll call myself Mr. Corky Bell from now on! Speaking of things not being free, how bout some advice from me. Actually listen when people talk.
You want me to give you a parts list, hold your hand and tell you how to turn a bolt and put the kit on, and then someone to give you hp numbers and exact performance? Jeeze, what is this, daycare? If the original poster cant install one himself, then they should get a shop to do it. Tough luck, i thought this was a thread about turbos and blowers, not whining about 'what would you do, what would you suggest' and associated bickering.
People have posted good ideas to lean towards, such as what motor to try and what kits to shoot for. What more could you ask for? Well, apparently you want it all, hell drop off your car over here and i'll put a kit on it for ya, you can just drive off in 15minutes with 90000hp and a 200,000mile warrenty bumper to bumper...Happy?
FYI, i am for turbos and superchargers, why do you have to be either-or? Just trying to clear things up what with people thinking turbos=free, and that blowers suck power away. If we are discussing turbos and blowers, why not have all the FACTS out there, not 'stories' about such and such on a civic and so-and-so had a ferrari with street tires...
Ever think that the rear-wheel-drive nature of the larger 'exotic' cars leads to quicker 1/4 ile times? Steet tires arent street tires either, you could fit two of your front tires side by side for each rear tire of the afformentioned exotic car on 'street' tires. The weight transfer, plus the giant contact patch equals 1/4 mile times. Try launching in reverse and see how hard you can hook up, yo'd be surprised!
This is not a bashing post, but an irritated one, lets talk about the facts of each system, not the urban myths.
"so you went out and spent 20 bucks on a book...then now you are against it?? sounds like you dont support either....which are you for???"
Well, i thought you were smarter than that! I didnt just buy a book, read it, and re-type it all here and claim to be mr turbo. that would be a free way to become a turbo expert on the net, hell i'll call myself Mr. Corky Bell from now on! Speaking of things not being free, how bout some advice from me. Actually listen when people talk.
You want me to give you a parts list, hold your hand and tell you how to turn a bolt and put the kit on, and then someone to give you hp numbers and exact performance? Jeeze, what is this, daycare? If the original poster cant install one himself, then they should get a shop to do it. Tough luck, i thought this was a thread about turbos and blowers, not whining about 'what would you do, what would you suggest' and associated bickering.
People have posted good ideas to lean towards, such as what motor to try and what kits to shoot for. What more could you ask for? Well, apparently you want it all, hell drop off your car over here and i'll put a kit on it for ya, you can just drive off in 15minutes with 90000hp and a 200,000mile warrenty bumper to bumper...Happy?
FYI, i am for turbos and superchargers, why do you have to be either-or? Just trying to clear things up what with people thinking turbos=free, and that blowers suck power away. If we are discussing turbos and blowers, why not have all the FACTS out there, not 'stories' about such and such on a civic and so-and-so had a ferrari with street tires...
Ever think that the rear-wheel-drive nature of the larger 'exotic' cars leads to quicker 1/4 ile times? Steet tires arent street tires either, you could fit two of your front tires side by side for each rear tire of the afformentioned exotic car on 'street' tires. The weight transfer, plus the giant contact patch equals 1/4 mile times. Try launching in reverse and see how hard you can hook up, yo'd be surprised!
This is not a bashing post, but an irritated one, lets talk about the facts of each system, not the urban myths.