Health Care Reform

[RonJ]

All I know is that I want a good heath care bullshit.

We seem to agree on at least one issue.

 

[RonJ]

I have a problem with anything & everything that is illegal. Illegal parking, illegal immigration, get my drift

There are CC threads where the topic is based entirely on an illegal activity. Have you similarly posted in those threads your strong views against those illegal activities?

 

[bizoneoeh]

Why do you want good healthcare? I've seen those 30lb chimichangas you eat, and motherfucker, there isn't a doctor in the world that can save your ass from a lifetime of eating those

because I want to keep eating those 30lb chiminichangas!

We seem to agree on at least one issue.

oh I'm sure we agree on more. Yeah, I'm not a fan of illegal immigrants but I hate no one and love everybody no matter what walk of life you are from. Would I help an illegal cross the border? No! Would I feed a hungry wetback? Yes! and that's the truth!

 

[RonJ]

oh I'm sure we agree on more. Yeah, I'm not a fan of illegal immigrants but I hate no one and love everybody no matter what walk of life you are from. Would I help an illegal cross the border? No! Would I feed a hungry wetback? Yes! and that's the truth!

I know this voice is from the real Biz.

 

[Voltio]

There are CC threads where the topic is based entirely on an illegal activity. Have you similarly posted in those threads your strong views against those illegal activities?

I don't know, why don't you check my posting history

If you support criminals and don't mind working extra hours & paying extra taxes in order to support people who have no right being here then you go on ahead and do that. I for one refuse to work so others can reap benefits they are not entitled to.

oh I'm sure we agree on more. Yeah, I'm not a fan of illegal immigrants but I hate no one and love everybody no matter what walk of life you are from. Would I help an illegal cross the border? No! Would I feed a hungry wetback? Yes! and that's the truth!

I'm the same way. I don't hate anybody based on race, gender, political views, etc. I wouldn't help anyone cross the border illegally, help them gain employment illegally, or provide a house for them as long as they are illegal. I will feed someone who is homeless, or anyone else that is struggling to find a meal.

 

[oc_civic]

I really didn't want you guys to document proof that you are true blue American citizens. Based on your exceptionally hard stance against illegal immigrants, I was trying to have you consider that what you have been told about your immigrant heritage may or may not be correct with respect to legal versus illegal entry into the U.S. If you were to discover that a father, mother, or ancestor had at some point entered the U.S. illegally, would your stance soften at all on this topic? How would you feel if, based on this new revelation about your family history, people now told you that you were not really an American and should leave the country? Would that be fair?

to answer your question..

If i found out my family lied cheated anyone under any circumstances to take advantage i would be upset with that.. would i up and leave and then try to come back legally? if that is what the law stated i must do then yeah.. i mean i KNOW that your question is NOT "are you american can you prove it" but i along with the others have pretty substantial paperwork from my family... and i know they came here legally.. but i understand you were asking more a what if.. and i know you may say "its easy to say you would do that because you dont have to....." one thing im not is a hypocrite.. if i found out i was not technically here legally i would not be able to live with that without fixing it..

 

[oc_civic]

There are CC threads where the topic is based entirely on an illegal activity. Have you similarly posted in those threads your strong views against those illegal activities?

i actually knew that was coming...

that thread.. that thread is a victimless crime.. well it should be.. the ONLY violence that comes from that is the same violence that prohibition created.. it is a proven fact that if you want to create a terrible criminal underworld, all you have to do is simply make something illegal that the majority of the population feels should not be illegal..

 

[bizoneoeh]

They Took Errr Jerrrrbs!

 

[RonJ]

...one thing im not is a hypocrite.. if i found out i was not technically here legally i would not be able to live with that without fixing it..

I take you for your word as I think you are an honorable person.

As you guessed, I was trying to get some of the extreme anti-illegal alien voices to consider how their views might change if they discovered that someone in their family had entered the U.S. illegally. I predicted that most would have to soften their hard opinion at least somewhat. I also didn't think my hypothetical question was unfair, given that the U.S. is by definition an immigrant nation, and many likely did not enter this country in a purely legal way.

 

[RonJ]

i actually knew that was coming...

that thread.. that thread is a victimless crime.. well it should be.. the ONLY violence that comes from that is the same violence that prohibition created.. it is a proven fact that if you want to create a terrible criminal underworld, all you have to do is simply make something illegal that the majority of the population feels should not be illegal..

My question that you are responding to was directed at Voltio who stated "I have a problem with anything & everything that is illegal. Illegal parking, illegal immigration, get my drift." I was trying to figure out whether his outrage for illegal acts was selective toward immigrants or was really his general philosophy. He seemed to avoid directly answering the question. Let me also say that I really don't have a problem with said thread. I was just using it to make a point. However, as you know, it is not at all a victimless crime when you consider the shockingly high number of people who are killed daily in Mexico and the U.S. to support this activity. Related to this idea, you can read in today's newspapers about the execution of three American diplomats yesterday by such Mexican criminals. Is the answer to legalize this and other related activities in the U.S.? I'm not sure, but please don't discuss this issue further here as it is too off topic for the current thread.

 

[oc_civic]

I take you for your word as I think you are an honorable person.

As you guessed, I was trying to get some of the extreme anti-illegal alien voices to consider how their views might change if they discovered that someone in their family had entered the U.S. illegally. I predicted that most would have to soften their hard opinion at least somewhat. I also didn't think my hypothetical question was unfair, given that the U.S. is by definition an immigrant nation, and many likely did not enter this country in a purely legal way.

see here is the thing.. i UNDERSTAND that the intention was for us die hard anti-immigration people to think about being on the other side of the "fence".... and while thats all well and good its somewhat irrelevant.. the idea is to think of myself as a poor starving mexican..... or a nigerian wasting away from disease... etc... so that i in turn say oh well yeah if my life sucked that bad i WOULD break the law and do anything to enter the county, even do so illegally.. even if that WAS the result.. even if i DID see their point.. even if i DID understand why they are compelled to violate law, it would not matter... because in THAT scenario that you described you are expecting me to do what is in MY (and or my families) best interest.. well im NOT from mexico.. im from the united states.. and my views exist because i want to do EXACTLY that what is in my families best interest.. and what is in my nations best interest..

look i get it.. you let a handful of border jumpers into the country.. you let them do your s**t work that nobody feels like doing.. they build up a nice little chunk of cash and head back to the family.. and it makes you feel all warm and good inside.. really.. i get it.. im not some cold heartless machine.. but as far as i can tell.. as i have expressed countless times.. they are WRONG for doing it.. our government is WRONG for allowing it.. and employers are WRONG for encouraging it.. we are AIDING them in BREAKING THE LAW.. we are INSULTING EVERY strong american family that has STRUGGLED to build SOLID roots in this nation... this is a nation that IS a melting pot... but it is one made from people who have brought their culture and ethnic heritage here to become AMERICANS... this country was not created to be some layover work state where people can come and go as they please..

when people site that illegal immigration is not really a big deal and not a huge contributor to violent crime it is GROSSLY insulting.. if ONE US CITIZEN LOSES HIS OR HER LIFE TO A PERSON WHO ILLEGALLY ENTERED THE COUNTRY, that to me is one HUGE f**k UP.. look you can NOT stop all crime i get that.. but a US citizen being violated by a perpetrator who DOES NOT EVEN BELONG HERE.. is ABSURD at best.. if we are not safe from outside attackers in our own nation well then wtf.. when people enter the country illegally it is IMPOSSIBLE to conduct ANY quality control.... oh... see that guy who just came across the border illegally.. is he a hard working family man? drug addict? serial rapist? who knows? nobody... just imagine.. 3am.. and you are involved in a fatal shooting at your home because some piece of trash is trying to break into your house, only to find out he does NOT EVEN BELONG IN THIS COUNTRY.. or maybe have one crash into you only to find out he has no insurance...

to even argue that ILLEGAL immigration is good in ANY capacity is ridiculous to me.. everyone has a right to pursue a better life, no one is trying to deny them that.. last time i checked we still allowed immigration.. you just have to do it right.. and i see NOTHING wrong with that..

 

[RonJ]

to even argue that ILLEGAL immigration is good in ANY capacity is ridiculous to me.. everyone has a right to pursue a better life, no one is trying to deny them that.. last time i checked we still allowed immigration.. you just have to do it right.. and i see NOTHING wrong with that..

As I said, I am not for illegal immigration. It is a problem that absolutely must be addressed. I just don't think it is the root of all major problems in the U.S. like you do. In addition, while you are obsessed with illegal immigration due in part to jobs lost by U.S. citizens, you seem to have no problem with legal immigration. For example, with respect to job loss, I would argue that legal immigrants have an even greater impact on jobs lost by Americans because immigrants who are allowed to work in our country often capture the higher paying and valued jobs, especially in high tech professions. Therefore, I believe that your nearly complete focus on illegal immigrants is partially misplaced and that more emphasis should be placed on more important legal activities that have triggered the struggling economy and high jobless rate.

 

[oc_civic]

As I said, I am not for illegal immigration. It is a problem that absolutely must be addressed. I just don't think it is the root of all major problems in the U.S. like you do. In addition, while you are obsessed with illegal immigration due in part to jobs lost by U.S. citizens, you seem to have no problem with legal immigration. For example, with respect to job loss, I would argue that legal immigrants have an even greater impact on jobs lost by Americans because immigrants who are allowed to work in our country often capture the higher paying and valued jobs, especially in high tech professions. Therefore, I believe that your nearly complete focus on illegal immigrants is partially misplaced and that more emphasis should be placed on more important legal activities that have triggered the struggling economy and high jobless rate.

the majority of people out of welfare collecting a state check fall more in the low income spectrum.. SURE there are doctors and lawyers who are out of work.. but generally speaking its the lower level people that i personally notice... the lady in the supermarket i spoke of earlier in this thread, she did not come across as your typical college educated type crowd.. additionally if im being honest.. i whole wholeheartedly think that immigrating into this country should actually be harder than it is.. again just due to basic supply and demand.. our country has X amount of resources... resources such as schools, money, housing, etc.. when an area sees an enormous influx of people you eventually reach the point where quality of life suffers.. but before you can address the criteria for allowing people to LEGALLY immigrate.. you must FIRST address the ones who simply walk in... because without first addressing the amount of people illegally entering making it so that is no longer possible... there is no sense in making the LEGAL route harder.. as that would just further promote illegal immigration...

to be blunt man the solution the ONLY solution is incredibly harsh..

you can not make a structure that will stop them.. the ONLY solution i see is to shoot them on site.. there are parts of this country that are incredibly safe because if you trespass onto someones property you risk being shot.. you know what happens in area like that? you are VERY careful to stay on your side of the fence.. issue a shoot order to border patrol and you will see a DRAMATIC reduction in whos willing to take that chance... while mexico may suck.. getting shot sucks a lot worse..

 

[RonJ]

For anyone interested, the New York Times has published a synopsis of the history, the twists and turns, and recent articles of the Health Care Reform Bill. Click here.

 

[RonJ]

Update:

The House has just passed the Health Care Reform Bill. I sure hope it helps people as it was intended to do.

 

[MR99si]

Update:

The House has just passed the Health Care Reform Bill. I sure hope it helps people as it was intended to do.

Hope in one hand and s**t in the other and let me know which one fills up first.


The United States is on the verge of finical collapse and I fear this is the breaking point. Most people have no idea of the hard times coming in the United States.

 

[oc_civic]

Update:

The House has just passed the Health Care Reform Bill. I sure hope it helps people as it was intended to do.

yeah it will help more of the people who refuse to help themselves.. just what we need.. why work when you dont have to...

food stamps to feed you..
section 8 to house you...
and well now health care for you as well...

WHERE THE f**k IS THE DRIVE TO SUCCEED.. TO BETTER YOUR OWN LIFE...

there is NOTHING.. we are rapidly crossing the point of no return.. to be honest i sit here and wonder why i bother to go to work tomorrow.. why bother... get fired tomorrow collect some unemployment.. and all the rest of my government freebies.. you know its a REAL kick in the balls to know that people who dont lift a finger all day get EVERYTHING handed to them, as i work my 45 hours a week...

you know what...
f**k THOSE PIECES OF s**t....i might be an a*****e but at least ill die an HONEST HARD WORKING a*****e.. and what i have.. i have because i worked for it.. NOT from reaping the benefits from the hard work of OTHERS..

 

[ej_swag]

yeah it will help more of the people who refuse to help themselves.. just what we need.. why work when you dont have to...

food stamps to feed you..
section 8 to house you...
and well now health care for you as well...

WHERE THE f**k IS THE DRIVE TO SUCCEED.. TO BETTER YOUR OWN LIFE...

there is NOTHING.. we are rapidly crossing the point of no return.. to be honest i sit here and wonder why i bother to go to work tomorrow.. why bother... get fired tomorrow collect some unemployment.. and all the rest of my government freebies.. you know its a REAL kick in the balls to know that people who dont lift a finger all day get EVERYTHING handed to them, as i work my 45 hours a week...

you know what...
f**k THOSE PIECES OF s**t....i might be an a*****e but at least ill die an HONEST HARD WORKING a*****e.. and what i have.. i have because i worked for it.. NOT from reaping the benefits from the hard work of OTHERS..

 

[UCCRacing]

I am too tired to read this entire thread right now, but all I have to say is I hate Obama, he has done nothing but offered false promises and will do nothing but harm to our Country. The health care reform is a HORRIBLE idea, I bust my ass for my health care, if you look at it another way. It is called NATURE! The week will be on the bottom the strong are on the top, it is called LIFE... Stop trying to give everyone a freaking Hand out, you want it? WORK FOR IT....

 

[Mr. Jollypants]

yeah it will help more of the people who refuse to help themselves.. just what we need.. why work when you dont have to...

food stamps to feed you..
section 8 to house you...
and well now health care for you as well...

WHERE THE f**k IS THE DRIVE TO SUCCEED.. TO BETTER YOUR OWN LIFE...

there is NOTHING.. we are rapidly crossing the point of no return.. to be honest i sit here and wonder why i bother to go to work tomorrow.. why bother... get fired tomorrow collect some unemployment.. and all the rest of my government freebies.. you know its a REAL kick in the balls to know that people who dont lift a finger all day get EVERYTHING handed to them, as i work my 45 hours a week...

you know what...
f**k THOSE PIECES OF s**t....i might be an a*****e but at least ill die an HONEST HARD WORKING a*****e.. and what i have.. i have because i worked for it.. NOT from reaping the benefits from the hard work of OTHERS..

Companies with more than 50 employees that don't provide coverage are required to pay a fee of $750 per worker if any of its employees rely on government subsidies to purchase coverage.

Illegal immigrants will be barred from buying insurance in the health insurance exchanges.

Parents, however, will be entitled to keep their children on their health care plans until age 26.

It's not opening the flood gates to anyone, if anything, it's requiring companies who are being cheapasses and not providing health care to their employee's. I'm a small business, I make very little money but I still find the money to provide health coverage to my part-time employees. Does it hurt my income? Of course it does, but I figure it's better to hurt my overall income then have my employee's go to the hospital and add to the overall cost of providing healthcare to those unemployed.

Oh, and you said something about cost:

The $875 bill now headed to Obama's desk is projected to cut the federal deficit by $118 billion over the next 10 years, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office. If the compromise plan is also passed, the bill's total cost will rise by $65 billion. Projected deficits, however, will be cut by another $25 billion.