To cage or not to cage? That is the question.
- Thread starter dnunit
- Start date
It's a personal choice I know. I just put in what I feel, not trying to be at all offensive. But people have died due to hitting the roll bar at medium speed, just thought the guy might like to know. enough about wrecks though its depressing. btw foam filling can make a BIG difference in chassis rigidity, so can seam welding, neither of which require roll bars. A half cage probably isnt near as dangerous. Is that what you have oc?
just get a rear 4pt and youll be fine.
sorry to thread jack but do u have a link of where u got that cage from and do u know if they have one for teh 88-91 hatch??oc_civic said:yup
and not offended at all
www.IOPORTRACING.comsi-hatch86 said:
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you will probably talk to ken or this other guy both are really nice and helpfull
Yeah, but someone has died from everything. I knew people who would have lived if they hadn't been wearing a seat belt. But if the cage prevents the roof from caving, and the harness holds you in pretty tight, I think that'd be about the safest set up you could have. But thats just myburntrice16 said:
looks nice, however if you roll and something comes at you head on you probably won't be alive afterwords. there was a pic on honda tech that visually shows what i'm describing, i wish i could find a link. i'm of the mindset that if i roadraced or pulled some low 11's i would get a cage, otherwise it's just dangerous plain and simple.
my friend rolled a cutlass street racing.. and had it not been for the cage he would probably be dead.. if cages made cars more dangerous performance based cars would not have them.. there are roll bars that come factory with MOST convertables... they are there to support the roof.. and these cars are not even hanress equiped.. if you are properly harnessed in it is not reasonable to believe that it is more dangerous than factory with no harness and bar..Heretic:Si said:
I'm pretty sure oc_civic has the safest possible setup, all things considered.
Roll bar alone = death by head hitting roll bar
Racing seat alone = spinal injury
Harnesses alone = skull crushed in rollover
Racing seat and harnesses = same thing
FIA racing seat + FIA harnesses + FIA roll bar = completely safe and functional for any type of racing and daily driving
Roll bar alone = death by head hitting roll bar
Racing seat alone = spinal injury
Harnesses alone = skull crushed in rollover
Racing seat and harnesses = same thing
FIA racing seat + FIA harnesses + FIA roll bar = completely safe and functional for any type of racing and daily driving
a cage and a roll bar are two totally different things. factory cars don't come with harnesses for a reason. so when the roof caves in you slide to the center. a harness doesn't let you do that, does it? if you roll and an object comes through your windshield, or the roof caves in in front of the bar how exactly do you plan on moving out of it's path when your harness has you strapped to your seat? that's why harness bars are unsafe also, spine compression anyone. a six point cage, harness, and a helmet is more safe. i never disputed that. but the combination you have (harness w/ roll bar) isn't. it could help you in a certain situation but overall it's just not safe.
The main guy from safedrives.com (I forget his name) explained a lot of things in a really long honda-tech thread. The basic jist of it was that while of course a full cage will always be safer than a 4pt. roll bar, nevertheless, the Autopower 4pt roll bar is perfectly safe while using seats and harnesses under reasonable conditions.
If you're building a full track car, and you plan on racing around corners at like 80mph.. then yea, I would invest in a full cage. However, for most of us, who just daily drive, autocross, and maybe the occasional HPDE, the roll bar is the perfect solution.
Honestly.. we could debate this all day, with hypothetical situations and 'what if?'s. And people have done that on other forums, and probably ClubCivic as well. The best thing to do is call the experts, like the people at safedrives.com and figure out what is best for your specific use and application.
If you're building a full track car, and you plan on racing around corners at like 80mph.. then yea, I would invest in a full cage. However, for most of us, who just daily drive, autocross, and maybe the occasional HPDE, the roll bar is the perfect solution.
Honestly.. we could debate this all day, with hypothetical situations and 'what if?'s. And people have done that on other forums, and probably ClubCivic as well. The best thing to do is call the experts, like the people at safedrives.com and figure out what is best for your specific use and application.
you could debate it all day but there is no reason to since all you need is a little logic..zoops said:
a convertable comes with a roll bar, it has this to compensate for the lack of roof.. an autopower bar is no more than a roll bar, which can be found in more factory convertables.. the only difference is mine has a diagonal support and harness bar.. the diaganol support bar serves to make it that much stronger.. and the harness bar ensures my harness sits on me in the correct way.. meaning that i have equipment similar to that found in a factory car (convertibles) in conjunction with MORE safety equipment that is correctly installed.. and the whole argument made about what am i going to do if something flies through the window and hits me? im going to do the same thing i would in a normal car.. get hit by it or not.. im not a psycic ninja action movie star who has the ability to move out of an item speeding through my windshield
and in regards to rolling ill do nothing because my roll bar has a main hoop that will keep the roof from caving in.. ill unhook my harness and get out of the car..i think you missed the whole point i was trying to make, especially the movie star ninja bit. just to clarify my opinions are relating to street cars, not track cars. question, not to anyone in particular. why don't factory cars with rollbars come factory with a harness if it's so safe?
because a harness is not practical.. MOST people would not rock a 5pt harness every day.. just like most people would not rock a helmet every day.. doesnt mean that wearing a helmet is dangerous..Heretic:Si said:
the roll bar main hoop protects against crushing
the harness WILL hold me in...
the seats are of the highest quality
the harness bar holds the belt at the correct angle
all these things together will hold me perfectly in place.. i still dont see how my setup is dangerous.. it would be dangerous with any one component (seats, harness, or bar) removed as all three are created to work with one another..
Green 91 said:
oc_civic said:
you dont normally go out and plan to roll your car.. the reason i have the bar is simple.. i feel that the harness system i have is > than stock seat belts.. and you cant have a harness without a bar/cage.. safely at least.. also all these safety issues aside.. the roll bar also has made the car more rigid acting like a giant tie bar..
one last time, anything from the windshield back to the roll bar is not protected, in other words your head. i don't know how to make it anymore clear than that. keep defending your expensive RACING equipment for street use, that's how all these threads end up anyway. you get explained to in clear terms why you spent tons of money on stuff that isn't even used for the intention it was built for, and now your feelings get hurt so you defend it till the end. your setup isn't safe for the street end of story.